The Happiest Pod on Earth

46: Ariel and Stef are joined by Dr. Jinxi Caddel for a heartfelt and art-filled dive into the world of tattoos, identity, and Disney fandom. From full Alice in Wonderland back pieces to tiny churro flash tats, this episode celebrates how ink becomes a personal archive of memory, culture, and connection.

Jinxi shares her journey from tattoo publishing to mental health, co-owning a tattoo shop, and running a private practice for those who color outside the lines. Together, they unpack stigma, nostalgia, and the healing power of self-expression—through Disney and beyond. Whether you’re tattooed, tattoo-curious, or just love a good Dole Whip, this one’s for you.

Summary
 
00:00 Hosts and guest introductions
02:00 Childhood Disney memories and first tattoos
04:00 Jinxi’s journey from tattoo publishing to psychology
08:00 Stigma, acceptance, and professional visibility
13:00 Tattoos in families and intergenerational storytelling
16:00 Favorite Disney tattoos—characters, quotes, and food!
20:00 Fandoms in ink: Star Wars, Marvel, and park icons
24:00 Flash tattoos and memory markers
28:00 Permanent makeup and cultural ties
32:00 Tattoos as affirmations and emotional touchstones
35:00 Therapeutic meaning behind body art
40:00 Building safe, expressive spaces in education and therapy
46:00 Final reflections and where to find Jinxi’s work 

Transcription
 
00:00:03:20 – 00:00:05:01
Hello, everyone. 
00:00:05:01 – 00:00:07:01
Welcome to the Happiest Pod on Earth. 
00:00:07:01 – 00:00:07:18
I’m Stef 
00:00:07:18 – 00:00:09:12
I’m an educator who uses passions 
00:00:09:12 – 00:00:10:09
and fandoms to help 
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my students grow 
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and learn about themselves 
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and the world around them. 
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And I’m Ariel, a licensed therapist 
00:00:16:01 – 00:00:17:20
who uses clients passions and fandoms 
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to help them grow 
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and heal from trauma 
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and mental and wellness. 
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And I am Jinxi 
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and I’m a mental health therapist 
00:00:25:19 – 00:00:27:12
and a book publisher. 
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And the tattoo shop owner, 
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in Eugene, Oregon. 
00:00:31:11 – 00:00:33:01
I have a practice called Black 
00:00:33:01 – 00:00:33:20
Sleep Therapy, 
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where, I like to help people who, 
00:00:36:22 – 00:00:39:02
like to color outside the lines. 
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That might be black sheep 
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or unicorns themselves. 
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So I’m happy to be here. 
00:00:45:02 – 00:00:46:04
Wonderful. 
00:00:46:04 – 00:00:47:11
And here at Happiest Pod, 
00:00:47:11 – 00:00:48:19
we dissect Disney mediums 
00:00:48:19 – 00:00:50:05
So the critical lens. Why? 
00:00:50:05 – 00:00:51:15
Because we are more than just fans, 
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and we expect more from the mediums 
00:00:53:06 – 00:00:54:07
we consume. 
00:00:54:07 – 00:00:56:15
So, what are we talking about today? 
00:00:57:21 – 00:00:59:09
Well, we have another very 
00:00:59:09 – 00:01:01:04
special guest on our podcast. 
00:01:01:04 – 00:01:03:04
Welcome, Dr. Jinxi Right? 
00:01:03:04 – 00:01:04:05
It is. 
00:01:04:05 – 00:01:05:17
Thank you so much. 
00:01:05:17 – 00:01:06:11
I appreciate it, 
00:01:06:11 – 00:01:08:09
but I’m so happy to be here. 
00:01:08:09 – 00:01:09:15
Yeah, absolutely. 
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And we’re we have a really fun topic 
00:01:11:22 – 00:01:12:15
to talk about. 
00:01:12:15 – 00:01:13:18
And, 
00:01:13:18 – 00:01:16:11
we talk about Disney art on many levels, 
00:01:16:11 – 00:01:18:09
but I think this is a level of Disney 
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art that we haven’t quite talked about, 
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which is body art and tattoos. 
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And, 
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I think with the recent, 
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I think resurgence of tattoos 
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and the accessibility 
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to getting tattoos 
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has been widely seen and respected. 
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And, we just love 
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especially going to the parks 
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and seeing different 
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interpretations of Disney art. 
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And also, 
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you know, 
00:01:40:21 – 00:01:42:17
we were really curious for you, 
00:01:42:17 – 00:01:44:02
Dr. Jinxi 
00:01:44:02 – 00:01:47:02
you’re kind of journey into your 
00:01:47:02 – 00:01:49:17
amazing life, I think, as a therapist 
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and as an artist. 
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I think it’s a very unique, 
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perspective 
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that not many people know about. 
00:01:55:10 – 00:01:57:11
Yeah. Well, thank you so much. 
00:01:57:11 – 00:02:00:11
I, you know, it’s funny because 
00:02:00:17 – 00:02:03:14
as a child, my very first experience 
00:02:03:14 – 00:02:07:03
with a tattoo was at Disneyland, 
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and I was behind a girl in line 
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who had a Cheshire 
00:02:11:16 – 00:02:14:08
cat tattoo on her back. 
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And I thought it was like, 
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the dreamiest thing I had ever seen, 
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and I. 
00:02:19:01 – 00:02:19:23
I can’t remember 
00:02:19:23 – 00:02:22:05
how old I was, but I just 
00:02:22:05 – 00:02:25:05
it was locked in and I just knew 
00:02:25:05 – 00:02:27:05
someday I wanted tattoos to, 
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And, I 
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actually didn’t get 
00:02:31:16 – 00:02:34:01
my first tattoo until, 
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like, 
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my mid to late 
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20s, after 
00:02:36:22 – 00:02:38:17
I had had all of my kids 
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and, I was working as a, an editor 
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and a writer 
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for several, 
00:02:45:18 – 00:02:48:18
tattoo magazines at the time. 
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And so that just opened 
00:02:51:04 – 00:02:51:19
my world 
00:02:51:19 – 00:02:54:04
into all of these incredible artists. 
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And, 
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my very first tattoo 
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was a tiny little cherry on my ankle. 
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And, 
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and that has since grown into pretty much 
00:03:04:03 – 00:03:05:06
I have my whole head 
00:03:05:06 – 00:03:08:05
tattooed, down, down to my toes. 
00:03:08:05 – 00:03:09:08
Most of it’s covered. 
00:03:09:08 – 00:03:10:21
I have a couple little spots 
00:03:10:21 – 00:03:12:23
that I’m trying to hopefully 
00:03:12:23 – 00:03:14:19
be conservative them with now, 
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because I don’t 
00:03:15:07 – 00:03:18:07
have much real estate left. 
00:03:19:04 – 00:03:20:17
But, that’s a real thing. 
00:03:20:17 – 00:03:21:09
That’s a real thing. 
00:03:21:09 – 00:03:22:21
The real estate is limited 
00:03:22:21 – 00:03:25:11
And, you know, I did it, 
00:03:25:11 – 00:03:26:21
when I first started, 
00:03:26:21 – 00:03:30:01
I was so into the art form 
00:03:30:01 – 00:03:33:04
and the, the camaraderie 
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and just the whole experience 
00:03:35:01 – 00:03:36:04
of getting tattooed 
00:03:36:04 – 00:03:37:20
that I went full force, 
00:03:37:20 – 00:03:38:17
you know, like, once 
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I was ready to do it, 
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I was like, just going. 
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So I. 
00:03:44:06 – 00:03:45:14
I covered up a lot, 
00:03:45:14 – 00:03:48:06
you know, my arms, pretty early on, 
00:03:48:06 – 00:03:49:16
a lot of the precious 
00:03:49:16 – 00:03:51:10
real estate got taken up, 
00:03:51:10 – 00:03:52:20
you know, in my early years. 
00:03:52:20 – 00:03:55:12
But, now I’m much more, 
00:03:55:12 – 00:03:57:08
you know, thoughtful. I think. 
00:03:57:08 – 00:04:00:06
So I worked 
00:04:00:06 – 00:04:01:20
in the publishing world 
00:04:01:20 – 00:04:04:09
for a long time in the tattoo realm, 
00:04:04:09 – 00:04:05:02
and, 
00:04:05:02 – 00:04:06:00
eventually worked 
00:04:06:00 – 00:04:08:11
for a publishing company in the, 
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where I kind of learn 
00:04:10:09 – 00:04:13:03
the ropes of how to put books together. 
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And then my husband 
00:04:14:12 – 00:04:17:12
and I, started Out of Step Books 
00:04:17:13 – 00:04:20:13
in, 2010. 
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And we made art and tattoo books. 
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We still run it, 
00:04:24:11 – 00:04:25:23
but we’re both pretty busy 
00:04:25:23 – 00:04:26:22
with lots of things. 
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So we haven’t done a book 
00:04:28:16 – 00:04:29:23
for two years now, 
00:04:29:23 – 00:04:32:23
but we did 28 publications, 
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including, two children’s books, 
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and they’re all somehow tattoo related. 
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What the 
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the kids book is 
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kind of a little dip 
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into positive psychology 
00:04:45:01 – 00:04:47:19
about having a positive mental attitude, 
00:04:47:19 – 00:04:49:09
and it was illustrated 
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by a tattoo artist. 
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And then we have one of the other kids 
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books is a little ABC book, 
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and it was, 
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26 tattoo artists 
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each did a letter of the alphabet. 
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It’s super cute and…. That’s amazing! 
00:05:03:12 – 00:05:04:03
Yeah, 
00:05:04:03 – 00:05:04:21
it was fun 
00:05:04:21 – 00:05:05:21
because we used to go 
00:05:05:21 – 00:05:07:09
to a lot of conventions 
00:05:07:09 – 00:05:08:07
to sell the books. 
00:05:08:07 – 00:05:10:08
And, you know, a lot of tattoo 
00:05:10:08 – 00:05:11:19
collectors have children. 
00:05:11:19 – 00:05:13:03
Yeah. 
00:05:13:03 – 00:05:13:21
It was just. Yeah. 
00:05:13:21 – 00:05:16:00
You know, it was pretty awesome 
00:05:16:00 – 00:05:17:17
to get to have that. 
00:05:17:17 – 00:05:21:12
And then when we moved to, 
00:05:21:12 – 00:05:23:03
Eugene, Oregon, we, 
00:05:23:03 – 00:05:24:17
opened the, tattoo 
00:05:24:17 – 00:05:26:23
shop, called Out of Step Tattoo. 
00:05:26:23 – 00:05:28:03
And at this time, 
00:05:28:03 – 00:05:30:01
I had gone back to school, 
00:05:30:01 – 00:05:31:05
many years ago 
00:05:31:05 – 00:05:33:11
to get my masters and my doctorate 
00:05:33:11 – 00:05:35:05
in clinical psychology. 
00:05:35:05 – 00:05:38:07
So I kind of, I still have 
00:05:38:15 – 00:05:42:05
my artistic ties because obviously, it’s 
00:05:42:05 – 00:05:43:11
my outlet, 
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you know, for the things today, 
00:05:45:12 – 00:05:48:01
a part of my self-care. 
00:05:48:01 – 00:05:51:01
And, I need that in my life 
00:05:51:02 – 00:05:52:21
to be able to handle the work 
00:05:52:21 – 00:05:55:03
I do as a therapist. 
00:05:55:03 – 00:05:57:15
So it’s been a very unique, 
00:05:57:15 – 00:06:01:01
but awesome balance for me. 
00:06:01:01 – 00:06:03:08
Yes. Yeah, yeah. 
00:06:03:08 – 00:06:04:13
So I’m, I’m hearing 
00:06:04:13 – 00:06:05:14
that you got to 
00:06:05:14 – 00:06:06:19
really meld together 
00:06:06:19 – 00:06:08:02
different parts of yourself 
00:06:08:02 – 00:06:09:09
for authenticity 
00:06:09:09 – 00:06:11:04
And I’m hearing that as being 
00:06:11:04 – 00:06:11:21
it feeds you. 
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It continues to rejuvenate 
00:06:13:12 – 00:06:15:19
you and be a new experience. 
00:06:15:19 – 00:06:16:22
Absolutely. 
00:06:16:22 – 00:06:18:19
And the tattoo community 
00:06:18:19 – 00:06:21:19
became so important in my life, too. 
00:06:21:20 – 00:06:24:17
You know, they I feel like it’s family. 
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And it gave me so much. 
00:06:26:20 – 00:06:28:11
And the artists 
00:06:28:11 – 00:06:30:06
I worked with were so important, 
00:06:30:06 – 00:06:31:11
especially on the books. 
00:06:31:11 – 00:06:33:22
We would work with thousands of artists 
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from across the world. 
00:06:34:23 – 00:06:36:06
So, 
00:06:36:06 – 00:06:38:15
it just became such a part of my life, 
00:06:38:15 – 00:06:39:01
you know? 
00:06:39:01 – 00:06:40:19
And honestly, 
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shout out to the tattoo community, 
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because when we were low 
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on masks and gloves during the pandemic, 
00:06:47:08 – 00:06:48:19
a lot of tattoo artists 
00:06:48:19 – 00:06:50:20
donated those things to hospital. 
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Like it was vital for us 
00:06:52:08 – 00:06:53:06
our ability 
00:06:53:06 – 00:06:54:19
to be able to move forward 
00:06:54:19 – 00:06:57:09
and take care of our healing professions. 
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Absolutely 
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I know it’s it’s 
00:07:00:11 – 00:07:03:06
really is an incredible community 
00:07:03:06 – 00:07:04:09
of people. 
00:07:04:09 – 00:07:06:09
And, 
00:07:06:09 – 00:07:07:21
I, I still I’m 
00:07:07:21 – 00:07:09:15
a co-owner of the tattoo shop. 
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I don’t get to be 
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there as much as I like 
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because I’m always in my office. 
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But, but my partner, runs it, 
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and we have 12 amazing 
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artists who are very, dedicated to 
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and inclusive environment that, 
00:07:25:23 – 00:07:28:23
you know, that just delivers 
00:07:28:23 – 00:07:32:05
special and wonderful art to collectors. 
00:07:32:11 – 00:07:34:01
So it’s. 
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Yeah, it’s it’s been a it’s been a 
00:07:36:20 – 00:07:38:04
I feel super lucky, 
00:07:38:04 – 00:07:40:14
you know, to have been on this journey 
00:07:40:14 – 00:07:41:12
in this way. 
00:07:41:12 – 00:07:42:10
And, you know, 
00:07:42:10 – 00:07:43:01
it’s funny 
00:07:43:01 – 00:07:46:05
because when I first went back to school, 
00:07:46:09 – 00:07:49:03
I was really concerned about my tattoos 
00:07:49:03 – 00:07:51:00
because I had very visible, 
00:07:51:00 – 00:07:53:14
you know, head, neck and hand tattoos 
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and I didn’t know if, it would be okay. 
00:07:57:11 – 00:07:59:20
You know, in my, in the profession 
00:07:59:20 – 00:08:02:15
because I didn’t know if people would 
00:08:02:15 – 00:08:04:10
accept me and hire me. 
00:08:05:23 – 00:08:08:19
But, you know, it’s it’s been, 
00:08:08:19 – 00:08:10:11
I don’t feel like my tattoos 
00:08:10:11 – 00:08:12:17
have ever held me back at all 
00:08:12:17 – 00:08:14:20
in the mental health world. It’s been. 
00:08:14:20 – 00:08:15:11
If anything, 
00:08:15:11 – 00:08:16:03
I feel like 
00:08:16:03 – 00:08:19:06
it helps me to connect to my clients. 
00:08:19:13 – 00:08:19:17
Yeah. 
00:08:19:17 – 00:08:20:12
And, 
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I think a lot of people maybe seek me out 
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because they, 
00:08:24:08 – 00:08:25:10
they see things 
00:08:25:10 – 00:08:28:07
that they feel related to. 
00:08:28:07 – 00:08:31:07
So it’s it’s been it’s been cool. 
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I’m curious. 
00:08:33:10 – 00:08:35:16
I know that you have tattoos 
00:08:35:16 – 00:08:37:21
all over your body with visible, Stef? 
00:08:37:21 – 00:08:39:07
Do you have tattoos 
00:08:39:07 – 00:08:41:10
because you’re in an education space? 
00:08:41:10 – 00:08:44:06
And is that was there worry there or now? 
00:08:44:06 – 00:08:45:14
Has the perception changed? 
00:08:45:14 – 00:08:46:12
Because I know that 
00:08:46:12 – 00:08:47:22
in the mental health field, 
00:08:47:22 – 00:08:50:01
we’re allowing clinicians 
00:08:50:01 – 00:08:51:12
to be more authentic, 
00:08:51:12 – 00:08:53:11
no longer the blank slate. 
00:08:53:11 – 00:08:56:17
So has that, experience you’re having? 
00:08:57:21 – 00:09:00:04
No, actually, when I 
00:09:00:04 – 00:09:00:18
finish school, 
00:09:00:18 – 00:09:01:16
because I finish school 
00:09:01:16 – 00:09:02:10
a little bit later, 
00:09:02:10 – 00:09:05:06
I got my teaching credential in Masters. 
00:09:05:06 – 00:09:06:04
A little bit later. 
00:09:06:04 – 00:09:06:16
Wasn’t left, 
00:09:06:16 – 00:09:07:16
like, right out of high school. 
00:09:07:16 – 00:09:09:11
I worked for a long time, 
00:09:09:11 – 00:09:11:02
when I was doing my student teaching, 
00:09:11:02 – 00:09:12:09
I met a lot of colleagues, 
00:09:12:09 – 00:09:13:23
especially in the schools, 
00:09:13:23 – 00:09:16:08
that I was doing my student teaching at, 
00:09:16:08 – 00:09:17:20
that had visible tattoos. 
00:09:17:20 – 00:09:20:04
Mainly they were on their arms. 
00:09:20:04 – 00:09:21:12
Sometimes they had them on their necks 
00:09:21:12 – 00:09:22:08
and things like that. 
00:09:22:08 – 00:09:24:21
But now being in Los Angeles, it’s 
00:09:24:21 – 00:09:25:13
it was a little bit 
00:09:25:13 – 00:09:26:09
more expected 
00:09:26:09 – 00:09:28:00
because we are 
00:09:28:00 – 00:09:28:06
we were 
00:09:28:06 – 00:09:29:10
kind of going into the wave 
00:09:29:10 – 00:09:30:13
of younger 
00:09:30:13 – 00:09:31:20
educators now 
00:09:31:20 – 00:09:32:19
because a lot of our 
00:09:32:19 – 00:09:34:12
educators were retiring. 
00:09:34:12 – 00:09:35:22
And some of my mentors, 
00:09:35:22 – 00:09:37:21
one of my mentors in particular, 
00:09:37:21 – 00:09:39:16
he was a musician as well, 
00:09:39:16 – 00:09:40:22
but he had been teaching in the 
00:09:40:22 – 00:09:43:23
LSD system for somewhat 20 years, 
00:09:43:23 – 00:09:46:19
and he had tattoos only on his arms. 
00:09:46:19 – 00:09:47:11
But, 
00:09:47:11 – 00:09:49:00
it totally took that stigma 
00:09:49:00 – 00:09:50:12
away from me immediately. 
00:09:50:12 – 00:09:52:05
And then when I got hired 
00:09:52:05 – 00:09:54:03
at the school that I’m currently in, 
00:09:54:03 – 00:09:56:04
my coworkers, they had tattoos. 
00:09:56:04 – 00:09:58:17
This one, they were female and nice. 
00:09:58:17 – 00:09:59:20
You know, the kids love them 
00:09:59:20 – 00:10:02:05
because they were colorful. 
00:10:02:05 – 00:10:04:02
Know the parents that we serve. 
00:10:04:02 – 00:10:05:22
They have tattoos, too. 
00:10:05:22 – 00:10:07:09
And I think 
00:10:07:09 – 00:10:08:10
now it’s it’s 
00:10:08:10 – 00:10:10:14
more of an expression of their art 
00:10:10:14 – 00:10:12:05
and things that they love 
00:10:12:05 – 00:10:14:12
as opposed to an identity marker. 
00:10:14:12 – 00:10:16:21
And, I know there was so many years 
00:10:16:21 – 00:10:18:22
that it was a negative identity marker, 
00:10:18:22 – 00:10:20:13
especially in certain areas of, 
00:10:20:13 – 00:10:21:21
you know, Los Angeles 
00:10:21:21 – 00:10:22:23
and other big cities. 
00:10:22:23 – 00:10:25:21
But I think slowly that stigma 
00:10:25:21 – 00:10:27:09
has kind of gone away now 
00:10:27:09 – 00:10:29:17
because these people, 
00:10:29:17 – 00:10:31:08
they’re just here with their families 
00:10:31:08 – 00:10:32:08
and they just want their kids 
00:10:32:08 – 00:10:33:09
to have a safe space 
00:10:33:09 – 00:10:35:01
where they can be themselves. 
00:10:35:01 – 00:10:36:23
So, I mean, I have 
00:10:36:23 – 00:10:39:16
two visible tattoos, but I have, 
00:10:39:16 – 00:10:41:03
you know, hope 
00:10:41:03 – 00:10:42:05
I’ve been wanting to have more, 
00:10:42:05 – 00:10:44:03
but having kids in the middle of it 
00:10:44:03 – 00:10:45:18
got kind of hard. 
00:10:45:18 – 00:10:47:19
But it’s true. 
00:10:47:19 – 00:10:49:07
But my husband, he’s, 
00:10:49:07 – 00:10:50:05
you know, 
00:10:50:05 – 00:10:51:04
we’ve mentioned before 
00:10:51:04 – 00:10:52:13
he’s enlisted in the military, 
00:10:52:13 – 00:10:56:09
and he is all tatted up, but, 
00:10:56:09 – 00:10:56:18
you know, 
00:10:56:18 – 00:10:57:16
even though 
00:10:57:16 – 00:10:59:15
they have certain regulations, 
00:10:59:15 – 00:11:03:14
I think when he changes into his, 
00:11:03:14 – 00:11:04:20
physical training clothes, 
00:11:04:20 – 00:11:06:19
everyone’s like, oh, my gosh, 
00:11:06:19 – 00:11:08:17
I didn’t know you were blasting 
00:11:08:17 – 00:11:10:03
all your arms and legs. 
00:11:10:03 – 00:11:13:03
And it’s a conversation piece. 
00:11:13:05 – 00:11:14:14
And, yeah, 
00:11:14:14 – 00:11:15:11
you know, for him, 
00:11:15:11 – 00:11:18:08
we were just at Disney World recently, 
00:11:18:08 – 00:11:20:20
and so many people come up to him 
00:11:20:20 – 00:11:22:21
and ask him, hey, man, I love your ink. 
00:11:22:21 – 00:11:24:09
Like I really love the art. 
00:11:24:09 – 00:11:25:03
You know, like, 
00:11:25:03 – 00:11:26:09
you know, just kudos to you. 
00:11:26:09 – 00:11:27:12
And that’s how they strike 
00:11:27:12 – 00:11:29:07
conversation and commonality. 
00:11:29:07 – 00:11:30:07
And even though 
00:11:30:07 – 00:11:31:13
they weren’t Disney tattoos, 
00:11:31:13 – 00:11:34:00
they just admire the work of the artist. 
00:11:34:00 – 00:11:35:18
And that in itself creates community. 
00:11:35:18 – 00:11:38:08
And it’s so beautiful to see. Totally. 
00:11:38:08 – 00:11:41:17
I, I love to hear that so many educators 
00:11:41:20 – 00:11:43:11
have visible tattoos. 
00:11:43:11 – 00:11:44:19
That makes me so happy. 
00:11:44:19 – 00:11:46:23
It’s so, so awesome. 
00:11:46:23 – 00:11:50:12
I, I worked for a short period of time 
00:11:50:12 – 00:11:51:06
in high school 
00:11:51:06 – 00:11:52:00
and middle school 
00:11:52:00 – 00:11:53:01
as a therapist, 
00:11:53:01 – 00:11:54:10
and I again, 
00:11:54:10 – 00:11:55:16
I was worried, 
00:11:55:16 – 00:11:57:00
you know, that it 
00:11:57:00 – 00:11:59:20
it might not be cool with the parents and 
00:11:59:20 – 00:12:01:06
but it just 
00:12:01:06 – 00:12:03:14
I think as you said, the stigma 
00:12:03:14 – 00:12:05:12
has changed 
00:12:05:12 – 00:12:06:16
You know we are 
00:12:06:16 – 00:12:08:01
we’re it’s just different. 
00:12:08:01 – 00:12:08:14
And people 
00:12:08:14 – 00:12:09:15
are accepting 
00:12:09:15 – 00:12:12:13
and appreciating the art form. 
00:12:12:13 – 00:12:15:16
And I love to hear that for myself. 
00:12:15:16 – 00:12:17:09
I do not have any tattoos. 
00:12:17:09 – 00:12:19:02
However, 
00:12:19:02 – 00:12:20:15
my grandmother got her 
00:12:20:15 – 00:12:22:08
first tattoo in her 60s 
00:12:22:08 – 00:12:23:15
because she couldn’t 
00:12:23:15 – 00:12:26:15
draw her eyeliner on. 
00:12:27:00 – 00:12:28:23
It was because of her arthritis. 
00:12:28:23 – 00:12:30:12
So she went to the doctor 
00:12:30:12 – 00:12:32:19
and the doctor did a tattoo. Eyeliner. 
00:12:32:19 – 00:12:34:21
Oh, that’s so cute. 
00:12:34:21 – 00:12:38:05
I know my aunt in her 60s 
00:12:38:05 – 00:12:39:11
got her first tattoo 
00:12:39:11 – 00:12:41:04
and it was lip liner again 
00:12:41:04 – 00:12:42:23
because she didn’t know the time. 
00:12:42:23 – 00:12:45:11
So I think I have to uphold that 
00:12:45:11 – 00:12:47:15
tradition to where my first tattoo 
00:12:47:15 – 00:12:49:17
needs to be on my face. And my 60s. 
00:12:49:17 – 00:12:52:07
That’s what I’ve decided. 
00:12:52:07 – 00:12:53:16
That’s a big commitment. 
00:12:54:22 – 00:12:56:02
Yeah. 
00:12:56:02 – 00:12:56:20
You know, 
00:12:56:20 – 00:12:57:23
permanent 
00:12:57:23 – 00:12:59:20
makeup artists are incredible 
00:12:59:20 – 00:13:03:07
to that whole that whole, craft has, has 
00:13:03:07 – 00:13:06:15
just changed leaps and bounds as well. 
00:13:06:15 – 00:13:08:12
And it’s it’s 
00:13:08:12 – 00:13:09:07
how amazing 
00:13:09:07 – 00:13:12:07
is it right to be able to have that that. 
00:13:12:11 – 00:13:13:18
Yeah. Yeah. 
00:13:13:18 – 00:13:14:23
And I think the first 
00:13:14:23 – 00:13:16:18
like the first experience 
00:13:16:18 – 00:13:17:12
that I had 
00:13:17:12 – 00:13:18:17
with my family members 
00:13:18:17 – 00:13:20:05
getting anything that resembled 
00:13:20:05 – 00:13:22:10
a tattoo was permanent makeup 
00:13:22:10 – 00:13:23:17
because I remember 
00:13:23:17 – 00:13:26:01
my aunts would go back to the Philippines 
00:13:26:01 – 00:13:28:05
and they would get permanent makeup done 
00:13:28:05 – 00:13:29:11
because they simply just 
00:13:29:11 – 00:13:30:19
didn’t want to do the routine 
00:13:30:19 – 00:13:31:18
every single day. 
00:13:31:18 – 00:13:32:02
Yeah. 
00:13:32:02 – 00:13:32:18
And I was 
00:13:32:18 – 00:13:33:13
and I know the ink 
00:13:33:13 – 00:13:34:22
pattern was a little bit different 
00:13:34:22 – 00:13:36:00
because it would like, 
00:13:36:00 – 00:13:37:14
somehow fade to like blue 
00:13:37:14 – 00:13:39:04
or purple after a while. 
00:13:40:05 – 00:13:41:04
But now, I mean, the 
00:13:41:04 – 00:13:42:14
technology has changed 
00:13:42:14 – 00:13:43:09
because I was like, 
00:13:43:09 – 00:13:45:03
I like, is that a rite of passage 
00:13:45:03 – 00:13:46:05
that I have to do, 
00:13:46:05 – 00:13:47:07
like one day 
00:13:47:07 – 00:13:49:13
when I don’t have any eyebrows, 
00:13:49:13 – 00:13:50:10
which is fine, 
00:13:50:10 – 00:13:50:22
but I don’t know 
00:13:50:22 – 00:13:53:01
if I like the color blue. Yeah. 
00:13:53:01 – 00:13:55:05
But luckily, 
00:13:55:05 – 00:13:56:17
you know, I’m smart enough to know 
00:13:56:17 – 00:13:57:19
now that the technology 
00:13:57:19 – 00:13:59:08
has changed to wear, 
00:13:59:08 – 00:14:02:03
you know, stay the same color. 
00:14:02:03 – 00:14:03:14
But, yeah, 
00:14:03:14 – 00:14:04:18
I don’t have to live with myself. 
00:14:04:18 – 00:14:07:17
The permanent eye makeup I love. 
00:14:07:17 – 00:14:08:22
Yeah, the ink. 
00:14:08:22 – 00:14:10:21
Companies have come 
00:14:10:21 – 00:14:13:05
so far to everything. 
00:14:13:05 – 00:14:13:21
Oh, man. 
00:14:13:21 – 00:14:16:23
It compared to when we started, 
00:14:17:14 – 00:14:21:06
you know, 25, almost 30 years ago, 
00:14:21:19 – 00:14:22:20
getting tattooed, it’s 
00:14:22:20 – 00:14:25:08
changed so, so significantly. 
00:14:25:08 – 00:14:28:19
And it’s so exciting to see all of the, 
00:14:30:10 – 00:14:31:23
Leaps and bounds 
00:14:31:23 – 00:14:34:03
It’s it’s become. It’s pretty. 
00:14:34:03 – 00:14:35:11
It’s pretty exciting. 
00:14:35:11 – 00:14:36:18
Okay, well, as we know, 
00:14:36:18 – 00:14:38:15
this is a Disney podcast. 
00:14:38:15 – 00:14:41:15
So yeah, the fact that you own a tattoo 
00:14:41:16 – 00:14:43:21
shop, what are the Disney tattoos 
00:14:43:21 – 00:14:44:20
that you’ve seen? 
00:14:44:20 – 00:14:48:13
I do know for us on episode 39, 
00:14:48:13 – 00:14:49:18
The Battle of the Pumpkin King, 
00:14:49:18 – 00:14:52:05
we had an author named Dan Conner on, 
00:14:52:05 – 00:14:54:10
and he wrote a graphic novel, 
00:14:54:10 – 00:14:56:06
oh, The Battle for Pumpkin King. 
00:14:56:06 – 00:14:56:21
And he said he’s 
00:14:56:21 – 00:14:58:04
seen so many Nightmare 
00:14:58:04 – 00:15:01:02
Before Christmas tattoos at conventions 
00:15:01:02 – 00:15:01:14
And that’s, like, 
00:15:01:14 – 00:15:04:06
very popular characters to have. 
00:15:04:06 – 00:15:05:02
So cool. 
00:15:05:02 – 00:15:06:09
Well, 
00:15:06:09 – 00:15:09:09
I mean, just because of the beloved 
00:15:09:21 – 00:15:12:11
ness of Disney characters, it’s 
00:15:12:11 – 00:15:14:10
it’s always going to be such 
00:15:14:10 – 00:15:16:02
a popular thing. 
00:15:16:02 – 00:15:16:16
You know, 
00:15:16:16 – 00:15:17:09
I have, 
00:15:17:09 – 00:15:21:11
the little oyster babies on my arm, 
00:15:21:11 – 00:15:22:07
and my whole, 
00:15:22:07 – 00:15:25:07
my whole back is, Alice in Wonderland. 
00:15:25:10 – 00:15:27:02
Disney Alice 
00:15:27:02 – 00:15:28:10
Yeah. 
00:15:28:10 – 00:15:30:19
So, I love that. 
00:15:30:19 – 00:15:32:13
I love them, too. 
00:15:32:13 – 00:15:35:07
I oh, man, I can’t even 
00:15:35:07 – 00:15:36:23
I don’t even know where to start with. 
00:15:36:23 – 00:15:41:05
I think a lot of people do, quotes, 
00:15:41:05 – 00:15:41:21
you know, 
00:15:41:21 – 00:15:45:20
things like, like Hakuna matata or, 
00:15:45:22 – 00:15:47:17
you know, 
00:15:47:17 – 00:15:48:12
doing the, 
00:15:48:12 – 00:15:51:12
To infinity and beyond things like that, you know, 
00:15:51:12 – 00:15:54:09
but then the characters I, you see 
00:15:54:09 – 00:15:55:05
such a huge, 
00:15:56:04 – 00:15:58:10
array. 
00:15:58:10 – 00:16:00:04
I think Tinkerbell has always 
00:16:00:04 – 00:16:03:04
been very, popular. 
00:16:03:06 – 00:16:06:09
She’s, you know, just the magical element 
00:16:06:09 – 00:16:09:09
and, her feistiness and, 
00:16:10:03 – 00:16:12:22
Alice in Wonderland does seem to be 
00:16:12:22 – 00:16:14:14
still very popular. 
00:16:14:14 – 00:16:17:16
You know, Lilo and Stitch, 
00:16:17:17 – 00:16:19:21
I think we’ve seen a lot. 
00:16:19:21 – 00:16:24:21
Ohana, just, you know, that 
00:16:24:22 – 00:16:26:06
that whole 
00:16:26:06 – 00:16:27:19
family, 
00:16:27:19 – 00:16:31:03
anything that can tie things together 
00:16:31:03 – 00:16:34:03
that you hold dear to yourself. 
00:16:34:22 – 00:16:38:09
I see a lot of Disney theme park tattoos. 
00:16:39:11 – 00:16:42:14
I recently saw a cool, on Instagram. 
00:16:42:14 – 00:16:46:10
I saw a cool, Dole whip, tattoo. 
00:16:46:16 – 00:16:48:01
That is so cute. 
00:16:48:01 – 00:16:48:22
And, 
00:16:48:22 – 00:16:53:22
just like the Mickey Mouse, ice cream bars 
00:16:53:22 – 00:16:56:21
of course, the castle is huge. 
00:16:56:21 – 00:16:58:10
And, 
00:16:58:10 – 00:17:00:07
Oh, man, it’s endless, right? 
00:17:00:07 – 00:17:01:12
Because everybody 
00:17:01:12 – 00:17:05:03
has their special character or saying 
00:17:05:08 – 00:17:06:21
or memory 
00:17:06:21 – 00:17:09:05
that they want to keep with them. 
00:17:09:05 – 00:17:10:06
And yeah, 
00:17:10:06 – 00:17:14:01
I think that element of nostalgia, and, 
00:17:14:01 – 00:17:17:14
and also just the, associations 
00:17:17:14 – 00:17:20:09
that it can have for people is so, 
00:17:20:09 – 00:17:22:15
so special. So yeah. 
00:17:23:20 – 00:17:24:15
Yeah, yeah, 
00:17:24:15 – 00:17:25:17
I definitely seen 
00:17:25:17 – 00:17:27:05
a lot of the food items 
00:17:27:05 – 00:17:29:02
as like flash tattoos 
00:17:29:02 – 00:17:30:19
because they’re just so easy to do 
00:17:30:19 – 00:17:31:21
and they’re very quick. 
00:17:31:21 – 00:17:33:14
And it’s just a little trinket 
00:17:33:14 – 00:17:35:16
of like a churro or like you say, 
00:17:35:16 – 00:17:38:00
a Mickey pops or a Dole whip 
00:17:38:00 – 00:17:39:14
or even like a popcorn bucket. 
00:17:39:14 – 00:17:40:12
I’ve seen, 
00:17:40:12 – 00:17:41:17
but yeah, 
00:17:41:17 – 00:17:43:15
I it’s just as like, simple as, 
00:17:43:15 – 00:17:45:06
you know, getting an enamel pin. 
00:17:45:06 – 00:17:45:21
I feel like 
00:17:45:21 – 00:17:48:01
it’s like you collect those things 
00:17:48:01 – 00:17:49:23
to show on your body as opposed 
00:17:49:23 – 00:17:51:17
to, like, your bag. 
00:17:51:17 – 00:17:52:13
You know, it’s something 
00:17:52:13 – 00:17:53:17
that you’re probably going to love 
00:17:53:17 – 00:17:55:18
forever is tied to a special memory, 
00:17:55:18 – 00:17:57:21
which is, you know, I think pretty cool. 
00:17:57:21 – 00:17:58:21
Well, 
00:17:58:21 – 00:17:59:19
Disney has, like, 
00:17:59:19 – 00:18:01:13
Marvel and Star Wars like. 
00:18:01:13 – 00:18:02:15
And that franchise. 
00:18:02:15 – 00:18:05:18
Oh, more and more of those tattoos. 
00:18:05:18 – 00:18:08:06
Lots of, like, Captain America’s shield. 
00:18:08:06 – 00:18:11:06
So lots of like Wakanda Forever. 
00:18:11:06 – 00:18:13:16
I, I’ve seen a numerous amount of those. 
00:18:13:16 – 00:18:15:10
And then every kind of lightsaber. 
00:18:15:10 – 00:18:18:18
Imagine light side, dark side rebels. 
00:18:18:18 – 00:18:19:13
Yeah. 
00:18:19:13 – 00:18:22:08
I wasn’t even thinking of the Star Wars 
00:18:22:08 – 00:18:23:12
part of it because, 
00:18:23:12 – 00:18:26:12
as you know, that is just 
00:18:26:15 – 00:18:28:05
an incredibly huge 
00:18:28:05 – 00:18:30:10
genre of tattoos in itself. 
00:18:30:10 – 00:18:32:18
There are some tattoo artists who 
00:18:32:18 – 00:18:33:19
that’s all they do 
00:18:33:19 – 00:18:35:07
because they have such 
00:18:35:07 – 00:18:36:08
a demand for it 
00:18:36:08 – 00:18:38:20
that that’s all they could keep up, 
00:18:38:20 – 00:18:39:18
you know? 
00:18:39:18 – 00:18:41:20
And same with Disney. 
00:18:41:20 – 00:18:43:21
There are so many tattoo artists 
00:18:43:21 – 00:18:47:20
who specialize in Disney themed tattoos, 
00:18:47:20 – 00:18:49:05
and they have such huge 
00:18:49:05 – 00:18:50:04
waiting lists 
00:18:50:04 – 00:18:53:02
that they don’t need to do anything else, 
00:18:53:02 – 00:18:54:04
you know? 
00:18:54:04 – 00:18:54:22
Oh, 
00:18:54:22 – 00:18:58:01
I was thinking to like the glass slipper. 
00:18:58:15 – 00:19:00:22
The apple from Snow White 
00:19:00:22 – 00:19:03:14
You know, just all those iconic 
00:19:03:14 – 00:19:06:00
things that that, you know, 
00:19:06:00 – 00:19:07:07
as soon as you look at it. 
00:19:07:07 – 00:19:09:16
What it is, Yes. 
00:19:09:16 – 00:19:11:17
And same with the food. 
00:19:11:17 – 00:19:15:17
Those things are so memorable. 
00:19:15:22 – 00:19:16:13
You know, 
00:19:16:13 – 00:19:18:23
we we all know exactly what it is 
00:19:18:23 – 00:19:20:12
as soon as you see it. 
00:19:20:12 – 00:19:22:21
So. Yeah, like you said, like iconic. 
00:19:24:06 – 00:19:25:03
Yes. 
00:19:25:03 – 00:19:27:02
It. And 
00:19:27:02 – 00:19:30:05
like nobody else can do it like Disney. 
00:19:30:08 – 00:19:30:19
Right. 
00:19:30:19 – 00:19:33:21
So I feel like it’s just it 
00:19:34:06 – 00:19:37:12
you see it and you know and it’s also has 
00:19:37:18 – 00:19:39:16
a special meaning to the, 
00:19:39:16 – 00:19:42:05
the person who’s wearing it. 
00:19:42:05 – 00:19:43:00
Yeah. 
00:19:43:00 – 00:19:45:01
I’m curious to know, are there 
00:19:45:01 – 00:19:47:16
people still a little embarrassed 
00:19:47:16 – 00:19:49:14
that they’re getting a Disney tattoo 
00:19:49:14 – 00:19:50:09
that you’ve seen? 
00:19:50:09 – 00:19:51:19
Because, you know, 
00:19:51:19 – 00:19:54:04
there’s talk about Disney adults 
00:19:54:04 – 00:19:55:02
and, you know, like, oh, 
00:19:55:02 – 00:19:56:03
that’s so childish. 
00:19:56:03 – 00:19:57:15
And I know that some 
00:19:57:15 – 00:19:58:07
sometimes, I mean, 
00:19:58:07 – 00:20:00:03
usually a tattoo is symbolize, 
00:20:00:03 – 00:20:00:19
you know, to 
00:20:00:19 – 00:20:02:19
to make you appear a certain way, 
00:20:02:19 – 00:20:04:20
maybe intimidating or what have you. 
00:20:04:20 – 00:20:07:01
But has there people been you know, 
00:20:07:01 – 00:20:08:09
I do want to get this tattoo, 
00:20:08:09 – 00:20:12:01
but I’m a little embarrassed, you know, 
00:20:12:13 – 00:20:13:08
I can’t 
00:20:13:08 – 00:20:16:01
I can’t recall anything like that. 
00:20:16:01 – 00:20:18:06
I’m sure that that happens. 
00:20:18:06 – 00:20:19:20
But I feel like 
00:20:19:20 – 00:20:20:22
getting tattooed 
00:20:20:22 – 00:20:23:19
is such an empowering thing 
00:20:23:19 – 00:20:25:19
that when you decide 
00:20:25:19 – 00:20:26:06
that you’re 
00:20:26:06 – 00:20:27:19
dedicating this space 
00:20:27:19 – 00:20:29:07
on your body to something, 
00:20:30:06 – 00:20:31:22
if that’s what you love and 
00:20:31:22 – 00:20:32:17
care about, 
00:20:32:17 – 00:20:35:17
you’re probably really proud to wear it. 
00:20:35:17 – 00:20:36:08
You know, 
00:20:36:08 – 00:20:37:09
regardless of how 
00:20:37:09 – 00:20:39:08
the rest of the world sees you. 
00:20:39:08 – 00:20:42:11
And I think that Disney, 
00:20:42:19 – 00:20:45:23
Disney adults, Disney fans like that. 
00:20:45:23 – 00:20:48:11
They love it, right? That’s true. 
00:20:48:11 – 00:20:48:18
It. 
00:20:48:18 – 00:20:51:21
Yeah, but I’m sure that that’s there. 
00:20:52:07 – 00:20:54:15
I, I can’t think of an instance 
00:20:54:15 – 00:20:56:07
where I have seen that, 
00:20:56:07 – 00:20:58:23
but I’m sure that, you know, 
00:20:58:23 – 00:21:01:23
people who observe of them might still 
00:21:02:17 – 00:21:05:15
say that talking about the empowerment 
00:21:05:15 – 00:21:06:04
for you, 
00:21:06:04 – 00:21:07:01
what have you noticed 
00:21:07:01 – 00:21:08:08
as the benefits 
00:21:08:08 – 00:21:09:14
of tattooing, 
00:21:09:14 – 00:21:12:08
the benefits of getting a tattoo 
00:21:12:08 – 00:21:13:04
on the end? 
00:21:13:04 – 00:21:16:08
I feel like it’s such an endless list. 
00:21:16:13 – 00:21:19:04
You know, 
00:21:19:04 – 00:21:21:01
I think it’s so it can become 
00:21:21:01 – 00:21:24:01
so connected to a person’s identity 
00:21:24:03 – 00:21:26:05
and what they hold, 
00:21:26:05 – 00:21:28:07
important to themselves. 
00:21:28:07 – 00:21:29:01
It can 
00:21:29:01 – 00:21:32:20
and it can encompass past memories, 
00:21:32:22 – 00:21:35:08
things that have happened in your life 
00:21:35:08 – 00:21:38:04
as well as dreams for your future. 
00:21:38:04 – 00:21:42:06
And, I think, like we talked about 
00:21:42:06 – 00:21:44:05
with the nostalgia, 
00:21:44:05 – 00:21:45:04
things that 
00:21:45:04 – 00:21:47:07
have been important to you 
00:21:47:07 – 00:21:51:04
in your childhood that you want to relive 
00:21:51:04 – 00:21:55:19
and remember, I think a really big thing 
00:21:55:19 – 00:21:56:10
I’ve seen 
00:21:56:10 – 00:21:58:05
is that community, 
00:21:58:05 – 00:22:00:11
sense of belongingness 
00:22:00:11 – 00:22:02:16
that can be so important 
00:22:02:16 – 00:22:04:23
to our mental health and well-being. 
00:22:04:23 – 00:22:06:02
You know, having 
00:22:06:02 – 00:22:08:20
those social identities that, 
00:22:08:20 – 00:22:12:01
that, you know, you belong somewhere. 
00:22:12:04 – 00:22:15:04
It can be so empowering for somebody. 
00:22:15:15 – 00:22:18:15
And is that form of expression 
00:22:18:18 – 00:22:20:11
because that as we know 
00:22:20:11 – 00:22:23:12
that when you decide to take that on, 
00:22:23:18 – 00:22:25:18
to wear it on your body, 
00:22:25:18 – 00:22:28:08
you’re giving a bold statement 
00:22:28:08 – 00:22:32:02
about, about yourself and, yeah, 
00:22:32:04 – 00:22:34:06
what you’re willing to, 
00:22:34:06 – 00:22:36:09
portray to the world. 
00:22:37:20 – 00:22:39:01
I see 
00:22:39:01 – 00:22:39:16
a lot 
00:22:39:16 – 00:22:43:05
of my clients do I see wear tattoos, 
00:22:43:10 – 00:22:46:17
and we use it so often in the work 
00:22:46:17 – 00:22:49:17
just because it can be, 
00:22:49:18 – 00:22:51:22
such a form of healing. 
00:22:51:22 – 00:22:54:22
If you’re overcoming trauma 
00:22:55:00 – 00:22:56:10
and you want to 
00:22:56:10 – 00:22:59:01
learn how to take that power back, 
00:22:59:01 – 00:23:01:18
it can be just great reminders 
00:23:01:18 – 00:23:02:22
to look down 
00:23:02:22 – 00:23:03:20
at something 
00:23:03:20 – 00:23:09:04
that helps you to stay strong or a, or, 
00:23:09:06 – 00:23:12:04
a quote or something that 
00:23:12:04 – 00:23:13:16
that it has been 
00:23:13:16 – 00:23:15:22
important in your healing. 
00:23:15:22 – 00:23:17:02
Yeah. Yeah. 
00:23:17:02 – 00:23:19:19
I, I for me, it 
00:23:19:19 – 00:23:21:16
it has become a very important 
00:23:21:16 – 00:23:23:19
part of my identity. 
00:23:23:19 – 00:23:26:15
I think it helped me to become, 
00:23:26:15 – 00:23:29:19
to step outside of 
00:23:31:02 – 00:23:33:07
barriers that were created for me 
00:23:33:07 – 00:23:35:04
as a child and, 
00:23:35:04 – 00:23:38:02
and be able to kind of become 
00:23:38:02 – 00:23:39:11
my own person. 
00:23:39:11 – 00:23:42:08
And as you, as you weave them 
00:23:42:08 – 00:23:43:12
all together, 
00:23:43:12 – 00:23:45:14
that becomes stronger and stronger. 
00:23:45:14 – 00:23:48:02
It did for me. Yeah. 
00:23:48:02 – 00:23:51:01
So it it’s, I don’t know, I, 
00:23:51:01 – 00:23:52:21
I just for me, it’s 
00:23:52:21 – 00:23:55:08
been such an incredible part 
00:23:55:08 – 00:23:56:14
of my own journey 
00:23:56:14 – 00:23:58:04
and tool to use 
00:23:58:04 – 00:23:59:17
with people that I work with. 
00:24:01:10 – 00:24:03:01
I think it really gives another meaning 
00:24:03:01 – 00:24:05:09
to being comfortable in your skin. Right? 
00:24:05:09 – 00:24:05:23
Because I think 
00:24:05:23 – 00:24:08:02
once you get past that barrier of, 
00:24:08:02 – 00:24:09:09
hey, this is me, 
00:24:09:09 – 00:24:10:04
I’m just going to wear it 
00:24:10:04 – 00:24:12:14
proudly on my body. 
00:24:12:14 – 00:24:13:21
That you don’t have to think about it 
00:24:13:21 – 00:24:14:20
consciously anymore. 
00:24:14:20 – 00:24:16:07
You’re not so much in your head 
00:24:16:07 – 00:24:17:12
and you’re just like, hey, 
00:24:17:12 – 00:24:18:14
and this is it. 
00:24:18:14 – 00:24:20:18
Just accept me as I am or, 
00:24:20:18 – 00:24:22:21
you know, move along. You sort of thing. 
00:24:22:21 – 00:24:24:06
It totally. 
00:24:24:06 – 00:24:26:02
And and that, you know, 
00:24:26:02 – 00:24:27:09
when people have been 
00:24:27:09 – 00:24:28:23
through really hard things, 
00:24:28:23 – 00:24:31:12
in their lives, sometimes you, 
00:24:31:12 – 00:24:33:05
you need that. 
00:24:33:05 – 00:24:35:06
You just need 
00:24:35:06 – 00:24:37:06
whatever tool that is. 
00:24:37:06 – 00:24:37:18
And, 
00:24:37:18 – 00:24:40:18
and sometimes tattoos can just be such, 
00:24:40:19 – 00:24:43:09
helpful part of that, 
00:24:43:09 – 00:24:44:12
I think, to, 
00:24:44:12 – 00:24:46:21
to help somebody to make those decisions, 
00:24:46:21 – 00:24:49:06
make those commitments and, 
00:24:49:06 – 00:24:51:09
and then proudly wear it. 
00:24:51:09 – 00:24:51:17
Is it 
00:24:51:17 – 00:24:53:02
something that you 
00:24:53:02 – 00:24:55:03
hold with you every day? 
00:24:55:03 – 00:24:58:03
And that can be such a great reminder? 
00:24:58:09 – 00:25:02:05
Yeah, I noticed in my practice, 
00:25:02:05 – 00:25:04:06
when we are talking about tattoos, 
00:25:04:06 – 00:25:05:20
it often aligns with someone’s 
00:25:05:20 – 00:25:07:23
grief experience. Right? With them. 
00:25:07:23 – 00:25:08:06
Yeah. 
00:25:08:06 – 00:25:11:09
Or a date, or an image. 
00:25:11:18 – 00:25:13:15
And the really beautiful thing about 
00:25:13:15 – 00:25:15:19
it is not only does it honor that loss, 
00:25:15:19 – 00:25:17:10
but it opens the door 
00:25:17:10 – 00:25:19:07
to be able to talk about this person. 
00:25:19:07 – 00:25:20:04
And I know for 
00:25:20:04 – 00:25:20:18
my clients 
00:25:20:18 – 00:25:21:21
recovering from grief, 
00:25:21:21 – 00:25:24:21
everyone’s afraid to like, make them sad. 
00:25:25:02 – 00:25:26:01
Oh, we don’t mention it. 
00:25:26:01 – 00:25:27:02
We don’t say anything 
00:25:27:02 – 00:25:28:07
because we don’t want to. 
00:25:28:07 – 00:25:30:01
We don’t want to bring stuff up. 
00:25:30:01 – 00:25:31:08
And they want to talk 
00:25:31:08 – 00:25:32:18
about the person they lost. 
00:25:32:18 – 00:25:34:06
They want to celebrate them 
00:25:34:06 – 00:25:35:22
It doesn’t just bring sadness, it 
00:25:35:22 – 00:25:37:18
brings joy and lots of nostalgia, 
00:25:37:18 – 00:25:39:09
lots of loving memories. 
00:25:39:09 – 00:25:41:18
And with a tattoo with a beautiful image, 
00:25:41:18 – 00:25:43:02
someone will ask about it 
00:25:43:02 – 00:25:44:08
and it opens up the door 
00:25:44:08 – 00:25:45:15
to have the conversation. 
00:25:45:15 – 00:25:47:23
And it didn’t start from them 
00:25:47:23 – 00:25:49:05
asking out of fear. 
00:25:49:05 – 00:25:51:05
Was curiosity right? 
00:25:51:05 – 00:25:53:07
That oh, that you nailed it. 
00:25:53:07 – 00:25:57:00
That’s that’s so, so powerful, isn’t it? 
00:25:57:00 – 00:26:00:00
Because memorial tattoos, 
00:26:00:03 – 00:26:02:06
they can mean so much to people 
00:26:02:06 – 00:26:04:19
and as you said, opening that door 
00:26:04:19 – 00:26:07:20
and being able to have a conversation 
00:26:07:20 – 00:26:10:23
starter that, in fact, it’s funny, 
00:26:10:23 – 00:26:14:10
is that because I do have a client who, 
00:26:14:21 – 00:26:18:03
his father passed away and 
00:26:18:11 – 00:26:20:05
was a guitar player 
00:26:20:05 – 00:26:23:05
and got a tattoo of a guitar, 
00:26:23:05 – 00:26:26:05
with, like, the banner that says Dad 
00:26:26:07 – 00:26:28:03
And, 
00:26:28:03 – 00:26:31:00
that has happened so many times for them 
00:26:31:00 – 00:26:32:08
where you know, 
00:26:32:08 – 00:26:34:03
somebody comments on the tattoo, 
00:26:34:03 – 00:26:34:21
and then 
00:26:34:21 – 00:26:38:10
they get to explain how important 
00:26:38:10 – 00:26:39:04
and meaningful 
00:26:39:04 – 00:26:42:16
that is without, as you said, making, 
00:26:42:16 – 00:26:43:05
you know, 
00:26:43:05 – 00:26:45:04
that helps them to open the door 
00:26:45:04 – 00:26:46:01
to talk about it 
00:26:46:01 – 00:26:47:11
so that they’re 
00:26:47:11 – 00:26:49:01
the person on the receiving end 
00:26:49:01 – 00:26:50:12
doesn’t feel 
00:26:50:12 – 00:26:52:10
bad or wonder about 
00:26:52:10 – 00:26:54:22
when it’s appropriate to talk. 
00:26:54:22 – 00:26:58:14
And memorial tattoos are so special. 
00:26:58:14 – 00:27:01:14
And whether it’s it’s a portrait of a 
00:27:02:03 – 00:27:05:22
loved one or a date or name or a pet, 
00:27:05:22 – 00:27:10:08
I have a tattoo of a special little kitty 
00:27:10:08 – 00:27:13:11
that we lost a few years ago that I see 
00:27:13:11 – 00:27:16:11
every day, and I it means so much to me. 
00:27:16:18 – 00:27:19:20
And yeah, I, I agree, memorial 
00:27:19:20 – 00:27:22:21
tattoos are such a gift, you know, 
00:27:23:02 – 00:27:26:07
because it it helps a person to heal 
00:27:26:07 – 00:27:29:11
and keep that with them in a positive way 
00:27:30:01 – 00:27:31:21
and, and help the world 
00:27:31:21 – 00:27:34:14
around them to also feel comfortable. 
00:27:34:21 – 00:27:35:18
Yeah, definitely. 
00:27:35:18 – 00:27:36:23
And you know, on the note 
00:27:36:23 – 00:27:38:06
of telling a story, 
00:27:38:06 – 00:27:39:14
whether it’s a story of grief 
00:27:39:14 – 00:27:41:00
or a story of love, 
00:27:41:00 – 00:27:43:13
we also know that tattoos are a symbol 
00:27:43:13 – 00:27:45:15
of cultural expression as well. 
00:27:45:15 – 00:27:46:21
So I know that, 
00:27:46:21 – 00:27:47:06
you know, 
00:27:47:06 – 00:27:49:04
many more people are honing in 
00:27:49:04 – 00:27:51:10
on their cultural expression. 
00:27:51:10 – 00:27:52:13
I know for myself, 
00:27:52:13 – 00:27:54:10
and I know we’re Filipina Americans, 
00:27:54:10 – 00:27:56:06
and so many Filipinos 
00:27:56:06 – 00:27:58:08
are tapping into that, 
00:27:58:08 – 00:28:01:14
sense of, you know, tribe and family 
00:28:01:14 – 00:28:03:02
to an ancient place 
00:28:03:02 – 00:28:04:07
that we we’ve never 
00:28:04:07 – 00:28:06:04
experienced will want to grow, 
00:28:06:04 – 00:28:06:21
you know, closer 
00:28:06:21 – 00:28:08:16
to where I know 
00:28:08:16 – 00:28:10:07
that, you know, for Disney fans, 
00:28:10:07 – 00:28:11:09
they want to be connected 
00:28:11:09 – 00:28:12:07
to certain cultures 
00:28:12:07 – 00:28:14:09
that they might not be connected to. 
00:28:14:09 – 00:28:17:21
But to use tattoos is a bridge to 
00:28:17:21 – 00:28:19:04
something like that. 
00:28:19:04 – 00:28:22:14
So for have you seen like, certain ways 
00:28:22:14 – 00:28:24:18
that people have embraced kind of, 
00:28:24:18 – 00:28:27:00
you know, that culture in that way? 
00:28:27:00 – 00:28:28:18
Oh for sure. I mean, 
00:28:30:03 – 00:28:33:08
first, it’s so it’s so special 
00:28:33:08 – 00:28:34:00
to be able 
00:28:34:00 – 00:28:35:01
to understand 
00:28:35:01 – 00:28:37:08
some of the roots of tattooing. 
00:28:37:08 – 00:28:39:17
Like the Tā Moko, 
00:28:39:17 – 00:28:42:23
with indigenous, people in New Zealand 
00:28:43:09 – 00:28:48:16
and, Irezumi is the tattoo in, Japan. 
00:28:49:04 – 00:28:50:20
And to be able to 
00:28:50:20 – 00:28:53:17
look at some of the origins of that, 
00:28:53:17 – 00:28:57:15
because you do see how essential 
00:28:57:15 – 00:29:00:21
that is in, in their community, 
00:29:01:02 – 00:29:04:15
you know, women who receive the, 
00:29:04:15 – 00:29:07:13
the chin tattoos in New Zealand. 
00:29:07:13 – 00:29:10:19
A few years ago, there was a, 
00:29:11:07 – 00:29:14:20
newscaster there who, proudly 
00:29:14:20 – 00:29:19:01
wears hers and, and it was, on the news. 
00:29:19:01 – 00:29:23:16
And it was such a amazing step for, 
00:29:24:20 – 00:29:27:20
allowing that to be normalized. 
00:29:28:17 – 00:29:30:09
And I, 
00:29:30:09 – 00:29:34:07
I love to see how all of that comes back 
00:29:35:01 – 00:29:36:15
around when people come in 
00:29:36:15 – 00:29:37:14
and want something 
00:29:37:14 – 00:29:39:20
connected to their cultural 
00:29:39:20 – 00:29:40:21
and their heritage. 
00:29:40:21 – 00:29:43:21
It’s because those are the the roots. 
00:29:43:21 – 00:29:44:10
You know, 
00:29:44:10 – 00:29:46:05
tattooing is so rich in 
00:29:46:05 – 00:29:48:20
in this historical 
00:29:48:20 – 00:29:51:02
form of storytelling and, 
00:29:51:02 – 00:29:54:04
and that’s your way to also carry that. 
00:29:55:09 – 00:29:58:21
I am so happy that, Disney has, 
00:29:59:06 – 00:30:00:18
Moana 
00:30:00:18 – 00:30:03:18
we were able to see a tattooed character. 
00:30:03:19 – 00:30:06:16
I, I would love to see them 
00:30:06:16 – 00:30:09:12
continue this, 
00:30:09:12 – 00:30:13:15
maybe to even work with, tattoo 
00:30:13:15 – 00:30:14:18
artists, indigenous 
00:30:14:18 – 00:30:17:21
tattoo artists to be able to incorporate 
00:30:18:23 – 00:30:21:15
true forms of, 
00:30:21:15 – 00:30:23:23
into other character development. 
00:30:23:23 – 00:30:26:21
That would be so exciting to see. 
00:30:26:21 – 00:30:29:01
And, and wouldn’t 
00:30:29:01 – 00:30:31:05
it be great to see more tattoo 
00:30:31:05 – 00:30:33:23
characters, you know, just in general, 
00:30:33:23 – 00:30:36:01
because as we’ve talked about 
00:30:36:01 – 00:30:36:22
this is 
00:30:36:22 – 00:30:39:18
a very normal part of our culture. 
00:30:39:18 – 00:30:42:21
Now, a lot of people wear tattoos. 
00:30:42:21 – 00:30:43:21
And I 
00:30:43:21 – 00:30:45:19
think, if I’m not mistaken, 
00:30:45:19 – 00:30:48:00
we only have one 
00:30:48:00 – 00:30:50:20
Disney character with tattoos right now. 
00:30:50:20 – 00:30:51:23
We have Maui. 
00:30:51:23 – 00:30:52:19
Maui. 
00:30:52:19 – 00:30:55:05
Moana doesn’t get it. 
00:30:55:05 – 00:30:57:15
Looks like Moana gets hers right. 
00:30:57:15 – 00:30:58:16
In the next movie, 
00:30:58:16 – 00:31:01:16
we saw a trailer and then Pocahontas. 
00:31:02:03 – 00:31:03:10
Oh you’re right. 
00:31:03:10 – 00:31:06:16
Oh of course, yeah, but unfortunately, 
00:31:07:01 – 00:31:07:22
you know, Pocahontas 
00:31:07:22 – 00:31:09:13
is based off of a real person, 
00:31:09:13 – 00:31:10:12
and her tattoos 
00:31:10:12 – 00:31:11:20
are actually very intricate. 
00:31:11:20 – 00:31:12:18
According to, like, 
00:31:12:18 – 00:31:14:02
what some of the imagery was. 
00:31:14:02 – 00:31:15:05
So what they have, 
00:31:15:05 – 00:31:16:10
I think that they show her 
00:31:16:10 – 00:31:17:19
having is very, 
00:31:17:19 – 00:31:21:03
very basic as the youths say right. 
00:31:21:11 – 00:31:22:23
I was the band and then. 
00:31:22:23 – 00:31:23:13
Yeah, 
00:31:23:13 – 00:31:24:00
if you 
00:31:24:00 – 00:31:25:00
if you want to 
00:31:25:00 – 00:31:28:02
maybe argue it does you know 
00:31:28:02 – 00:31:31:02
Andy writing his name on his toys 
00:31:31:02 – 00:31:32:03
is that tattooing 
00:31:34:17 – 00:31:35:18
I would 
00:31:35:18 – 00:31:36:15
I like to 
00:31:36:15 – 00:31:37:22
think it’s 
00:31:37:22 – 00:31:40:12
well it’s a form of of marking. 
00:31:40:12 – 00:31:41:00
Right. 
00:31:41:00 – 00:31:44:19
Which a tattoo is an obviously becomes 
00:31:44:19 – 00:31:48:03
so essential to the story when, 
00:31:48:14 – 00:31:52:14
when he’s questioning his value 
00:31:52:14 – 00:31:53:15
to Andy 
00:31:53:15 – 00:31:55:09
when Woody is questioning his value. 
00:31:55:09 – 00:31:59:01
And that kind of connects that to 
00:31:59:05 – 00:32:02:04
because, sometimes getting tattoo 
00:32:02:04 – 00:32:05:15
can help us to establish or identity. 
00:32:06:08 – 00:32:08:15
So I would love to think 
00:32:08:15 – 00:32:10:02
that they’re going for that. 
00:32:10:02 – 00:32:12:10
But what do you guys think? 
00:32:12:10 – 00:32:13:00
I mean, 
00:32:13:00 – 00:32:16:02
we it’s still a form of marking though. 
00:32:16:02 – 00:32:18:13
And, 
00:32:18:13 – 00:32:20:15
and, you know, just 
00:32:20:15 – 00:32:23:15
the importance of him 
00:32:24:05 – 00:32:27:00
or the two characters to each other, 
00:32:27:00 – 00:32:28:09
you know, yeah, 
00:32:28:09 – 00:32:30:09
it’s funny that you mentioned Andy 
00:32:30:09 – 00:32:32:08
questioning his, like, 
00:32:32:08 – 00:32:33:21
I guess, allegiance to whoever 
00:32:33:21 – 00:32:35:14
it was his owner at the time, 
00:32:35:14 – 00:32:37:20
because I was thinking, you know, if he, 
00:32:37:20 – 00:32:39:10
you know, had any contemplation 
00:32:39:10 – 00:32:41:01
on taking that away, 
00:32:41:01 – 00:32:42:15
it was like as if he was breaking up 
00:32:42:15 – 00:32:44:03
with Andy. 
00:32:44:03 – 00:32:44:15
Like, you know, 
00:32:44:15 – 00:32:46:02
when somebody gets a tattoo of, 
00:32:46:02 – 00:32:46:20
like, a form or, 
00:32:46:20 – 00:32:48:19
you know, like, significant other 
00:32:48:19 – 00:32:49:20
and they don’t want to remember 
00:32:49:20 – 00:32:50:19
that anymore. 
00:32:50:19 – 00:32:51:03
I was like, 
00:32:51:03 – 00:32:53:00
is he technically lasering this away? 
00:32:53:00 – 00:32:54:00
Like, yeah, 
00:32:54:00 – 00:32:54:08
you know, 
00:32:54:08 – 00:32:54:20
because he doesn’t 
00:32:54:20 – 00:32:55:17
want anything to do with 
00:32:55:17 – 00:32:56:22
but you, 
00:32:56:22 – 00:32:59:19
you know, only go during that parallel. 
00:32:59:19 – 00:33:01:08
Yeah. Yeah. 
00:33:01:08 – 00:33:01:17
Yeah. 
00:33:01:17 – 00:33:04:05
I would love to see more of that. 
00:33:04:05 – 00:33:05:21
I know, I know, yeah. 
00:33:05:21 – 00:33:06:05
Go ahead. 
00:33:06:05 – 00:33:06:13
Well, 
00:33:06:13 – 00:33:07:04
when I think of 
00:33:07:04 – 00:33:08:19
representation of tattoos, 
00:33:08:19 – 00:33:10:02
aside from those characters, 
00:33:10:02 – 00:33:12:03
we have like what Jack Sparrow 
00:33:12:03 – 00:33:13:16
and anybody who is a pirate. 
00:33:13:16 – 00:33:15:18
Yeah. True. 
00:33:15:18 – 00:33:17:11
And that which, 
00:33:17:11 – 00:33:19:07
which kind of hearkens back 
00:33:19:07 – 00:33:22:04
more to the stigmatized way 
00:33:22:04 – 00:33:23:16
of seeing that. Right. 
00:33:23:16 – 00:33:27:12
Because but wouldn’t 
00:33:27:12 – 00:33:31:01
it be an amazing opportunity to teach 
00:33:31:09 – 00:33:34:02
about cultural heritage 
00:33:34:02 – 00:33:35:11
and the connection 
00:33:35:11 – 00:33:36:21
of, of those characters 
00:33:36:21 – 00:33:39:10
and to do their part 
00:33:39:10 – 00:33:42:05
with normalizing tattoos? 
00:33:42:05 – 00:33:44:21
Because I mean it 
00:33:44:21 – 00:33:46:12
I understand needing 
00:33:46:12 – 00:33:48:04
to keep the balance for children. 
00:33:48:04 – 00:33:50:15
However, children are exposed 
00:33:50:15 – 00:33:52:23
to tattoo people all the time. Yes. 
00:33:52:23 – 00:33:55:16
And I, you know, growing. 
00:33:55:16 – 00:33:57:05
When my kids grew up, 
00:33:57:05 – 00:33:59:13
we obviously were tattooed 
00:33:59:13 – 00:34:01:07
and we tried to incorporate 
00:34:01:07 – 00:34:03:10
lots of different art into the house. 
00:34:03:10 – 00:34:05:14
And I really find that 
00:34:05:14 – 00:34:07:12
when when you normalize 
00:34:07:12 – 00:34:09:14
something, they’re not scared of it 
00:34:09:14 – 00:34:11:21
and they don’t think it’s taboo 
00:34:11:21 – 00:34:12:14
and, and like, 
00:34:12:14 – 00:34:15:18
they don’t want to rebel back to it 
00:34:15:18 – 00:34:19:18
as much as when you, repress it 
00:34:19:18 – 00:34:21:19
and teach them that it’s scary. 
00:34:22:18 – 00:34:24:13
So I would just love to 
00:34:24:13 – 00:34:25:01
see them 
00:34:25:01 – 00:34:25:22
just, you know, 
00:34:25:22 – 00:34:27:16
not know that they think, 
00:34:27:16 – 00:34:28:07
yeah, 
00:34:28:07 – 00:34:29:09
we have to get 
00:34:29:09 – 00:34:31:09
them head tattoos or facial, 
00:34:31:09 – 00:34:32:16
but just easy. Cool. 
00:34:32:16 – 00:34:34:12
They have a few new characters 
00:34:34:12 – 00:34:38:00
that just sported something, you know. 
00:34:38:04 – 00:34:38:21
So, you know, 
00:34:38:21 – 00:34:40:11
I always thought that, 
00:34:40:11 – 00:34:40:19
you know, 
00:34:40:19 – 00:34:42:22
we didn’t get tattoos on characters 
00:34:42:22 – 00:34:44:03
because I thought it was difficult 
00:34:44:03 – 00:34:47:16
for the animators to like, portray 
00:34:48:03 – 00:34:49:22
like a really good piece of art 
00:34:49:22 – 00:34:52:12
because sometimes it can get so intricate 
00:34:52:12 – 00:34:53:23
and you don’t want to, 
00:34:53:23 – 00:34:55:15
you know, make that dull 
00:34:55:15 – 00:34:56:20
and you don’t want it to be a bad 
00:34:56:20 – 00:34:58:15
looking tattoo. 
00:34:58:15 – 00:35:00:05
But I mean, when they did Maui, 
00:35:00:05 – 00:35:03:02
I think the CGI and also 
00:35:03:02 – 00:35:04:19
the animation has gone so far 
00:35:04:19 – 00:35:06:08
that maybe there’s a little bit 
00:35:06:08 – 00:35:07:18
easier for, you know, digital 
00:35:07:18 – 00:35:09:05
animators to do that. 
00:35:09:05 – 00:35:11:06
Because when I saw Maui’s 
00:35:11:06 – 00:35:12:09
I was like, these are good. 
00:35:12:09 – 00:35:14:15
Look, you know, they’re accurate, right? 
00:35:14:15 – 00:35:15:10
Portrayed 
00:35:15:10 – 00:35:16:17
and they don’t look weird 
00:35:16:17 – 00:35:18:14
and they look great on the skin. 
00:35:18:14 – 00:35:19:10
But, you know, 
00:35:19:10 – 00:35:20:21
I can imagine if that was harder 
00:35:20:21 – 00:35:23:09
for like a 2D animation to do that. 
00:35:23:09 – 00:35:24:12
So, you know, 
00:35:24:12 – 00:35:25:07
I don’t know if you guys 
00:35:25:07 – 00:35:26:16
had a thought about that 
00:35:26:16 – 00:35:28:19
because he does move 
00:35:28:19 – 00:35:31:17
and they flow with the movements 
00:35:31:17 – 00:35:32:15
really well. 
00:35:32:15 – 00:35:35:05
That’s a that’s a great point. 
00:35:35:05 – 00:35:36:08
Yeah. 
00:35:36:08 – 00:35:39:08
But that they can do it I know they can. 
00:35:39:11 – 00:35:40:10
Yeah, I could do it. 
00:35:40:10 – 00:35:41:17
I have a feeling we can 
00:35:41:17 – 00:35:42:19
if we believe in you, 
00:35:42:19 – 00:35:45:18
get more tattooed individuals in Disney. 
00:35:45:18 – 00:35:47:03
It’s going to come from Pixar. 
00:35:48:07 – 00:35:50:11
Oh I get it’s for the money. 
00:35:50:11 – 00:35:50:22
Right. 
00:35:50:22 – 00:35:53:22
So yeah that’s for the money. 
00:35:56:12 – 00:35:58:12
I going back to the cultural 
00:35:58:12 – 00:35:59:06
element though, 
00:35:59:06 – 00:36:00:13
I, I just, 
00:36:00:13 – 00:36:03:03
I think that’s such a great opportunity 
00:36:03:03 – 00:36:05:16
to really have those accurate, 
00:36:05:16 – 00:36:08:19
you know, depictions of something 
00:36:08:19 – 00:36:11:19
that can be so important. 
00:36:12:03 – 00:36:13:02
And, and I know 
00:36:13:02 – 00:36:15:05
we saw the one part of the song 
00:36:15:05 – 00:36:17:12
where the one guy was getting his tattoo. 
00:36:17:12 – 00:36:20:00
That’s how that’s that’s true. 
00:36:20:00 – 00:36:22:19
So so kudos to that. 
00:36:22:19 – 00:36:23:21
Yeah. 
00:36:23:21 – 00:36:26:02
So I and I would like to think 
00:36:26:02 – 00:36:28:04
that as we progress 
00:36:28:04 – 00:36:30:18
that that will change to. Right. 
00:36:30:18 – 00:36:33:01
Because things that, 
00:36:33:01 – 00:36:35:16
that they incorporated years ago 
00:36:35:16 – 00:36:37:02
have certainly changed 
00:36:37:02 – 00:36:40:02
with women’s roles and 
00:36:40:02 – 00:36:42:15
and just progress in general. 
00:36:42:15 – 00:36:45:00
So fingers crossed. 
00:36:45:00 – 00:36:45:06
Well, 
00:36:45:06 – 00:36:46:05
and then speaking 
00:36:46:05 – 00:36:47:17
in the cultural component Stef 
00:36:47:17 – 00:36:48:23
I think when your husband 
00:36:48:23 – 00:36:50:16
had to get one of his tattoos, didn’t 
00:36:50:16 – 00:36:51:21
he have to like, answer 
00:36:51:21 – 00:36:52:19
this questionnaire 
00:36:52:19 – 00:36:54:23
for lineage, for certain imagery 
00:36:54:23 – 00:36:56:17
and things that could be used 
00:36:56:17 – 00:36:58:02
that were like that 
00:36:58:02 – 00:36:59:08
historically represents 
00:36:59:08 – 00:37:00:16
a certain tribe of people? 
00:37:01:15 – 00:37:02:00
Yeah. 
00:37:02:00 – 00:37:03:06
So there’s a place here 
00:37:03:06 – 00:37:04:01
in Orange County, 
00:37:04:01 – 00:37:05:13
actually, that specializes 
00:37:05:13 – 00:37:07:07
in tribal Filipino tattoos. 
00:37:07:07 – 00:37:08:09
Oh, okay. 
00:37:08:09 – 00:37:10:04
So it was like a lengthy, 
00:37:10:04 – 00:37:13:08
like, multi-month process where we had to 
00:37:13:22 – 00:37:15:01
we had to like, 
00:37:15:01 – 00:37:15:21
kind of dig deep 
00:37:15:21 – 00:37:17:00
and see what his grandmother 
00:37:17:00 – 00:37:17:23
did for living, 
00:37:17:23 – 00:37:18:21
what his grandfather 
00:37:18:21 – 00:37:21:05
did on both sides of his family, kind of, 
00:37:21:05 – 00:37:22:18
you know, like what their, 
00:37:22:18 – 00:37:25:02
what their role was in the family 
00:37:25:02 – 00:37:25:09
and like, 
00:37:25:09 – 00:37:27:05
what industry that they worked in. 
00:37:27:05 – 00:37:29:21
And they work that into his entire sleeve 
00:37:29:21 – 00:37:30:18
and his sleeve 
00:37:30:18 – 00:37:33:15
basically tells the story of his family, 
00:37:33:15 – 00:37:34:21
what he does for a living. 
00:37:34:21 – 00:37:36:01
He’s in communication. 
00:37:36:01 – 00:37:38:05
So he had, like little lightning bolts 
00:37:38:05 – 00:37:39:06
that like, symbolize, 
00:37:39:06 – 00:37:39:19
you know, 
00:37:39:19 – 00:37:41:20
the transfer of like, information 
00:37:41:20 – 00:37:42:15
and things like that. 
00:37:42:15 – 00:37:44:20
So yeah, it was it was really great. 
00:37:44:20 – 00:37:45:14
And it helped us 
00:37:45:14 – 00:37:47:02
learn more about his lineage, 
00:37:47:02 – 00:37:48:11
which we wouldn’t have known 
00:37:48:11 – 00:37:50:19
if he didn’t decide to do that. 
00:37:50:19 – 00:37:51:05
Wow. 
00:37:51:05 – 00:37:52:09
So is this 
00:37:52:09 – 00:37:55:07
are these things that the tattoo 
00:37:55:07 – 00:37:55:20
you artist 
00:37:55:20 – 00:38:00:02
or the shop did research on to wow. 
00:38:00:08 – 00:38:01:03
That is it is. 
00:38:02:07 – 00:38:03:10
And then the next part of it 
00:38:03:10 – 00:38:05:06
is the actual work, the 
00:38:05:06 – 00:38:07:20
oh my gosh, that’s amazing process. 
00:38:07:20 – 00:38:10:15
What it’s like a genealogy project 
00:38:10:15 – 00:38:12:06
that comes to life on skin. 
00:38:12:06 – 00:38:15:15
And that’s really amazing and so special. 
00:38:15:15 – 00:38:17:19
That just makes it so special. 
00:38:17:19 – 00:38:18:15
You know, 
00:38:18:15 – 00:38:19:08
any time 
00:38:19:08 – 00:38:20:09
you have an artist 
00:38:20:09 – 00:38:24:04
that goes to those lengths and really cares 
00:38:24:04 – 00:38:26:12
about the final product, 
00:38:26:12 – 00:38:28:12
that’s that’s magic. 
00:38:28:12 – 00:38:31:14
You know, that’s that’s so amazing. 
00:38:32:02 – 00:38:34:13
And he must be so proud to wear it 
00:38:34:13 – 00:38:36:08
and to tell the story. Right. 
00:38:36:08 – 00:38:38:09
Because the story 
00:38:38:09 – 00:38:39:19
he has to like kind of figure out 
00:38:39:19 – 00:38:41:00
how he’s going to say it 
00:38:41:00 – 00:38:42:21
because there’s so much to talk about. 
00:38:42:21 – 00:38:44:05
But sometimes somebody asks him, 
00:38:44:05 – 00:38:45:21
like in line at Disneyland. 
00:38:45:21 – 00:38:47:18
So he has like two seconds to like 
00:38:47:18 – 00:38:48:08
this background. 
00:38:49:11 – 00:38:51:03
My mom said, okay, bye. 
00:38:51:03 – 00:38:51:15
See you later. 
00:38:51:15 – 00:38:52:03
Thank you. 
00:38:52:03 – 00:38:53:17
Oh, that’s so cute. 
00:38:53:17 – 00:38:55:11
Or hours in line. 
00:38:55:11 – 00:38:57:03
I mean, you get maybe. 
00:38:57:03 – 00:38:58:13
No, I’m just kidding. What? 
00:38:58:13 – 00:38:59:16
When you don’t have Genie+ 
00:38:59:16 – 00:39:02:02
When we don’t have lightning lane, Right. 
00:39:02:02 – 00:39:02:21
Nope. 
00:39:02:21 – 00:39:06:20
So we have been in Oregon since 2015, 
00:39:07:07 – 00:39:09:09
but we used to be annual passholders, 
00:39:09:09 – 00:39:12:09
so we lived in, we I was telling Ariel that, 
00:39:12:12 – 00:39:15:05
I lived in Riverside most of my life 
00:39:15:05 – 00:39:16:05
growing up. 
00:39:16:05 – 00:39:17:16
So I used to go all the time. 
00:39:17:16 – 00:39:18:05
I mean, I know 
00:39:18:05 – 00:39:21:05
things have changed so much, so I don’t 
00:39:21:05 – 00:39:22:17
I don’t fully understand 
00:39:22:17 – 00:39:25:22
all of the new rules, with lines and all. 
00:39:25:22 – 00:39:27:05
There’s a lot to know. 
00:39:27:05 – 00:39:28:11
And you know what? 
00:39:28:11 – 00:39:29:21
We’ll save that for another podcast. 
00:39:29:21 – 00:39:31:09
Okay, there we go. 
00:39:33:06 – 00:39:33:16
That’s 
00:39:33:16 – 00:39:34:11
really, really 
00:39:34:11 – 00:39:35:16
cool about your husband’s 
00:39:35:16 – 00:39:36:18
tattoo, though, 
00:39:36:18 – 00:39:39:13
I, I think it’s amazing 
00:39:39:13 – 00:39:42:07
that there is a shop that can 
00:39:42:07 – 00:39:43:14
isn’t that cool, that 
00:39:43:14 – 00:39:47:10
there can be a shop that is so focused on 
00:39:48:05 – 00:39:52:06
such a particular community, so amazing. 
00:39:52:06 – 00:39:53:03
It’s really. 
00:39:53:03 – 00:39:53:12
Yeah. 
00:39:53:12 – 00:39:55:13
And knowing that there, you know, 
00:39:55:13 – 00:39:57:23
we do have like a cultural history 
00:39:57:23 – 00:39:59:08
of that being, you know, 
00:39:59:08 – 00:40:00:09
you know, attached to us. 
00:40:00:09 – 00:40:02:09
I think it’s great that there’s people 
00:40:02:09 – 00:40:04:04
who do their research and continue 
00:40:04:04 – 00:40:05:20
on that tradition for, 
00:40:05:20 – 00:40:06:14
you know, those, 
00:40:06:14 – 00:40:08:06
you know, us in the diaspora 
00:40:08:06 – 00:40:11:05
that don’t have access to it because, 
00:40:11:05 – 00:40:11:13
all right, 
00:40:11:13 – 00:40:12:23
you know, our country so far away. 
00:40:12:23 – 00:40:14:15
So it was really, really great. 
00:40:14:15 – 00:40:16:01
So cool. 
00:40:16:01 – 00:40:19:01
And yeah, I love that. 
00:40:19:02 – 00:40:21:08
And you know, that really sets artists 
00:40:21:08 – 00:40:21:23
apart too, 
00:40:21:23 – 00:40:23:19
because there are a lot of 
00:40:23:19 – 00:40:25:14
tattoo artists in the world nowadays. 
00:40:25:14 – 00:40:26:04
And when you 
00:40:26:04 – 00:40:27:09
when you have something 
00:40:27:09 – 00:40:31:04
so niche like that but and special it’s 
00:40:31:12 – 00:40:33:08
it’s brilliant honestly. 
00:40:33:08 – 00:40:35:03
So super cool. 
00:40:35:03 – 00:40:36:01
Yeah. 
00:40:36:01 – 00:40:36:15
I’m, I’m 
00:40:36:15 – 00:40:39:00
curious do with the tattoo artists 
00:40:39:00 – 00:40:39:21
that you’ve worked with 
00:40:39:21 – 00:40:42:23
or talked to when you have already iconic 
00:40:42:23 – 00:40:45:23
imagery like Disney imagery does that 
00:40:46:22 – 00:40:47:09
bring more 
00:40:47:09 – 00:40:50:19
challenge to how they create the art, 
00:40:50:19 – 00:40:51:19
or does it 
00:40:51:19 – 00:40:52:18
like having that 
00:40:52:18 – 00:40:54:12
that already iconic imagery 
00:40:54:12 – 00:40:55:12
make it easier? 
00:40:55:12 – 00:40:57:03
Like what is that like for them 
00:40:57:03 – 00:40:59:19
creative wise? 
00:40:59:19 – 00:41:02:01
I, I think it’s it’s 
00:41:02:01 – 00:41:04:15
probably changed a lot over the years. 
00:41:04:15 – 00:41:06:03
I it’s funny, 
00:41:06:03 – 00:41:06:20
I remember 
00:41:06:20 – 00:41:10:06
when, I first started getting tattooed 
00:41:10:20 – 00:41:13:10
it was still a little risky 
00:41:13:10 – 00:41:16:15
to actually get an accurate, 
00:41:16:16 – 00:41:18:15
replica 
00:41:18:15 – 00:41:20:23
of a tattoo of a Disney character. 
00:41:20:23 – 00:41:22:22
I, I know this is wild, 
00:41:22:22 – 00:41:25:00
but there were stories back 
00:41:25:00 – 00:41:27:13
then where they would, sue people, 
00:41:27:13 – 00:41:29:14
you know, for having 
00:41:29:14 – 00:41:32:15
or having Disney images on that 
00:41:32:15 – 00:41:35:15
that weren’t changed. 
00:41:35:17 – 00:41:36:22
Which is 
00:41:36:22 – 00:41:38:13
I mean, this is a long time ago, but, 
00:41:38:13 – 00:41:39:08
yeah, obviously 
00:41:39:08 – 00:41:42:08
things have changed drastically. 
00:41:42:08 – 00:41:44:19
So I think in those times, 
00:41:44:19 – 00:41:48:10
artists had to make some alterations 
00:41:48:10 – 00:41:48:18
to it. 
00:41:48:18 – 00:41:50:06
So, you know, 
00:41:50:06 – 00:41:52:04
I mean, you can still hide it, 
00:41:52:04 – 00:41:56:03
I’m sure, but but just to be in alignment 
00:41:56:06 – 00:41:57:16
with their 
00:41:57:16 – 00:42:00:00
what they were requiring at the time. 
00:42:00:00 – 00:42:03:01
But, I think now 
00:42:03:13 – 00:42:07:12
it’s probably such a benefit to have 
00:42:08:03 – 00:42:10:22
that, 
00:42:10:22 – 00:42:12:20
you know, that core imagery 
00:42:12:20 – 00:42:15:21
because it, it it’s, you know, it’s so 
00:42:15:21 – 00:42:19:07
well done and so, memorable, 
00:42:19:17 – 00:42:21:00
and then adding 
00:42:21:00 – 00:42:22:18
those little touches to it 
00:42:22:18 – 00:42:26:05
and your style, because everybody’s 
00:42:26:05 – 00:42:29:23
got a little flair that makes their stuff 
00:42:30:18 – 00:42:34:15
pop, you know, and whether it’s like, 
00:42:34:15 – 00:42:36:11
watercolor version 
00:42:36:11 – 00:42:39:09
or maybe just black and gray, 
00:42:39:09 – 00:42:40:23
you know, taking a taking 
00:42:40:23 – 00:42:42:13
a very colorful character, 
00:42:42:13 – 00:42:43:20
but just doing know, cool 
00:42:43:20 – 00:42:47:02
black and gray imagery or adding 
00:42:47:07 – 00:42:48:16
something behind it 
00:42:48:16 – 00:42:50:18
that means something to the person. 
00:42:52:03 – 00:42:53:22
I’m sure it. 
00:42:53:22 – 00:42:54:08
Mr.. 
00:42:54:08 – 00:42:54:20
It’s probably 
00:42:54:20 – 00:42:57:21
a different answer for tattoo artist. 
00:42:57:21 – 00:43:00:21
Right. There’s just 
00:43:01:09 – 00:43:03:09
sometimes just taking an image 
00:43:03:09 – 00:43:07:02
and making a stencil of it and pop, 
00:43:07:08 – 00:43:08:09
you know, you’re done. 
00:43:08:09 – 00:43:11:05
That’s that’s super easy. 
00:43:11:05 – 00:43:12:12
And and so 
00:43:12:12 – 00:43:14:16
but putting all that extra into 
00:43:14:16 – 00:43:17:16
it is makes it special and. 
00:43:18:01 – 00:43:18:15
Yeah. 
00:43:18:15 – 00:43:20:12
Yeah, that’s a good question though 
00:43:20:12 – 00:43:22:20
I know I want to ask all these artists 
00:43:22:20 – 00:43:25:15
what they think. Yeah. 
00:43:25:15 – 00:43:28:00
Well and I know you had a presentation 
00:43:28:00 – 00:43:31:07
at tag’s 2022 where you highlighted 
00:43:31:07 – 00:43:32:13
a lot of the benefits, 
00:43:32:13 – 00:43:34:07
the therapeutic benefits of tattooing. 
00:43:34:07 – 00:43:36:21
And we have discussed some things, 
00:43:36:21 – 00:43:38:12
but I’m curious for you, 
00:43:38:12 – 00:43:40:02
for newer clinicians, 
00:43:40:02 – 00:43:41:18
how can they bring up the subject 
00:43:41:18 – 00:43:42:22
of someone’s tattoos? 
00:43:42:22 – 00:43:43:17
You just straight up 
00:43:43:17 – 00:43:44:16
ask them, like, what? 
00:43:44:16 – 00:43:46:23
What have you noticed about the waves 
00:43:46:23 – 00:43:48:21
and what have you noticed? 
00:43:48:21 – 00:43:50:23
Has been therapeutic conversations 
00:43:50:23 – 00:43:52:07
about it. 
00:43:52:07 – 00:43:52:22
Well, 
00:43:52:22 – 00:43:56:09
I first, as I mentioned earlier, I, 
00:43:56:17 – 00:44:00:20
I always embrace that when I see people 
00:44:01:05 – 00:44:02:01
who are tattoo 
00:44:02:01 – 00:44:03:13
because I know 
00:44:03:13 – 00:44:04:17
from my own experience 
00:44:04:17 – 00:44:07:01
that you have so many stories 
00:44:07:01 – 00:44:08:06
to tell through it. 
00:44:08:06 – 00:44:09:23
So if somebody know 
00:44:09:23 – 00:44:11:07
this is and 
00:44:11:07 – 00:44:14:00
and wants to talk about it, it’s, 
00:44:14:00 – 00:44:14:19
you know, it’s 
00:44:14:19 – 00:44:17:03
it’s usually this open door 
00:44:17:03 – 00:44:18:14
that lets you. 
00:44:18:14 – 00:44:21:05
Yeah, open up all kinds of things. 
00:44:21:05 – 00:44:24:14
I think the main thing that I have found 
00:44:24:14 – 00:44:25:05
has been so 
00:44:25:05 – 00:44:28:05
valuable is through narrative therapy, 
00:44:28:06 – 00:44:32:09
because tattoos are your storybook, 
00:44:32:14 – 00:44:32:23
you know, 
00:44:32:23 – 00:44:35:19
they are your way of telling your journey 
00:44:35:19 – 00:44:37:03
and your story. 
00:44:37:03 – 00:44:38:01
And a lot of times 
00:44:38:01 – 00:44:40:09
when people are, do it 
00:44:40:09 – 00:44:42:04
when we’re doing trauma work, 
00:44:42:04 – 00:44:45:17
the whole goal is to rewrite that story 
00:44:45:17 – 00:44:48:22
in a powerful, new, positive way. 
00:44:49:12 – 00:44:52:18
And tattoos can be that stepping stone 
00:44:52:20 – 00:44:53:14
for that. 
00:44:55:07 – 00:44:57:16
It’s, I 
00:44:57:16 – 00:45:00:18
had a client a while ago who was in a 
00:45:01:07 – 00:45:03:19
really, bad car accident 
00:45:03:19 – 00:45:06:14
and had a few tattoos, but, 
00:45:06:14 – 00:45:10:09
through the work, she decided 
00:45:10:09 – 00:45:13:09
to get a Phoenix tattoo, 
00:45:13:11 – 00:45:16:11
because it represents rebirth. 
00:45:16:16 – 00:45:18:15
And it was strength. 
00:45:18:15 – 00:45:20:02
And, 
00:45:20:02 – 00:45:23:01
it was such the incredible experience 
00:45:23:01 – 00:45:23:12
for her 
00:45:23:12 – 00:45:27:00
to even just making the appointment 
00:45:27:00 – 00:45:28:21
because this was, 
00:45:28:21 – 00:45:29:12
this started 
00:45:29:12 – 00:45:30:18
this whole new story 
00:45:30:18 – 00:45:31:05
that now 
00:45:31:05 – 00:45:34:08
she gets to tell as she’s healing 
00:45:34:08 – 00:45:35:16
both physically 
00:45:35:16 – 00:45:37:20
and mentally and emotionally. 
00:45:37:20 – 00:45:41:10
And each, tattoo session 
00:45:41:21 – 00:45:45:08
just brought so much for her as she was 
00:45:45:08 – 00:45:46:15
coming out of something 
00:45:46:15 – 00:45:49:15
very traumatic into this beautiful 
00:45:50:09 – 00:45:51:01
phoenix, 
00:45:51:01 – 00:45:54:08
you know, that actually represents that, 
00:45:55:01 – 00:45:58:11
another way of seeing it work 
00:45:58:21 – 00:46:02:09
very powerfully is, and just 
00:46:02:20 – 00:46:03:20
trigger warning 
00:46:03:20 – 00:46:06:03
in case anybody, struggles 
00:46:06:03 – 00:46:07:01
with self-harm, 
00:46:07:01 – 00:46:11:17
but, through self-harm scars, 
00:46:11:20 – 00:46:12:21
this 
00:46:12:21 – 00:46:15:04
this has become a really beautiful thing 
00:46:15:04 – 00:46:16:16
that a lot of tattoo artists do 
00:46:16:16 – 00:46:21:00
now to tattoo over and kind of with 
00:46:21:05 – 00:46:22:15
the, the scars. 
00:46:23:21 – 00:46:24:21
It’s so 
00:46:24:21 – 00:46:25:18
powerful and 
00:46:25:18 – 00:46:26:10
healing 
00:46:26:10 – 00:46:29:10
to be able to take something so painful 
00:46:29:16 – 00:46:33:16
that you are want to grow and 
00:46:33:16 – 00:46:35:14
and change from 
00:46:35:14 – 00:46:38:12
and cover it up with something beautiful 
00:46:38:12 – 00:46:40:12
and where you used to look down 
00:46:40:12 – 00:46:42:15
and see something, 
00:46:42:15 – 00:46:44:15
you know, very hard 
00:46:44:15 – 00:46:46:04
And, now 
00:46:46:04 – 00:46:46:18
you have 
00:46:46:18 – 00:46:49:09
this whole new way of seeing that. 
00:46:49:09 – 00:46:51:21
So that’s 
00:46:51:21 – 00:46:54:01
that is a really incredible, 
00:46:54:01 – 00:46:57:10
direction that a lot of artists do now. 
00:46:58:07 – 00:47:00:23
Also, mastectomy 
00:47:00:23 – 00:47:04:19
tattoo is can be incredible 
00:47:04:20 – 00:47:07:03
new journey into again 
00:47:07:03 – 00:47:08:21
something that we have been difficult 
00:47:08:21 – 00:47:10:13
to get through you 
00:47:10:13 – 00:47:11:14
Oh my gosh, 
00:47:11:14 – 00:47:13:06
some of the mastectomy 
00:47:13:06 – 00:47:14:22
artists are so incredible. 
00:47:14:22 – 00:47:17:08
Not only with 3D nipple tattoos, 
00:47:17:08 – 00:47:20:09
but also, just adorning it 
00:47:20:09 – 00:47:23:11
with flowers or octopus 
00:47:23:11 – 00:47:24:15
or whatever, 
00:47:24:15 – 00:47:25:19
whatever it is 
00:47:25:19 – 00:47:27:05
that you guys came up with, 
00:47:27:05 – 00:47:30:04
and now you’ve transformed something 
00:47:30:04 – 00:47:33:16
into this very proud part of you. 
00:47:34:06 – 00:47:35:09
Yeah. 
00:47:35:09 – 00:47:38:12
Same same for, the top surgery. 
00:47:39:00 – 00:47:40:09
People 
00:47:40:09 – 00:47:41:18
that go through top surgery 
00:47:41:18 – 00:47:45:07
that want to have a 3D nipple tattooed, 
00:47:45:14 – 00:47:48:04
I, I’m sure you guys have seen the work. 
00:47:48:04 – 00:47:50:19
It’s absolutely mind blowing. 
00:47:50:19 – 00:47:53:16
It looks so, so real. 
00:47:53:16 – 00:47:55:03
And. And how, 
00:47:57:05 – 00:47:59:01
how wonderful. 
00:47:59:01 – 00:47:59:10
Right. 
00:47:59:10 – 00:48:00:03
For somebody 
00:48:00:03 – 00:48:03:06
to be able to have the opportunity 
00:48:03:06 – 00:48:07:02
to feel whole and and as themself. 
00:48:07:12 – 00:48:09:16
So I know, something else 
00:48:09:16 – 00:48:12:02
I’ve seen with tattoos in my practice, 
00:48:12:02 – 00:48:13:22
as the audience might remember, 
00:48:13:22 – 00:48:14:19
I specialize 
00:48:14:19 – 00:48:15:18
with survivors 
00:48:15:18 – 00:48:18:18
of child sexual abuse or sexual abuse 
00:48:18:22 – 00:48:21:05
And so 
00:48:21:05 – 00:48:22:15
getting any tattoo 
00:48:22:15 – 00:48:25:04
feels like a reclaim of the body. 
00:48:25:04 – 00:48:27:16
That right is like, 
00:48:27:16 – 00:48:29:16
I can mark a moment of, 
00:48:29:16 – 00:48:31:21
this moving forward is me, 
00:48:31:21 – 00:48:33:23
like in my post-traumatic growth or, 
00:48:33:23 – 00:48:35:05
exactly 
00:48:35:05 – 00:48:38:03
like owning all parts of myself again. 
00:48:38:03 – 00:48:38:10
Yeah. 
00:48:38:10 – 00:48:41:18
And it could be as as simple as, 
00:48:41:18 – 00:48:43:02
you know, some dots on the hand 
00:48:43:02 – 00:48:44:19
or a little flower or on the hand right. 
00:48:44:19 – 00:48:46:13
It can be very immaculate 
00:48:46:13 – 00:48:49:22
It, and I know that, 
00:48:50:14 – 00:48:52:02
that was the only way 
00:48:52:02 – 00:48:53:19
that healing moving forward 
00:48:53:19 – 00:48:55:09
was going to happen was 
00:48:55:09 – 00:48:56:19
if my client could feel like 
00:48:56:19 – 00:48:59:00
they owned their body again. 
00:48:59:00 – 00:49:00:08
Right? 
00:49:00:08 – 00:49:01:02
Yes. 
00:49:01:02 – 00:49:03:20
It’s it’s so powerful. 
00:49:03:20 – 00:49:05:10
It really is. It’s like 
00:49:06:13 – 00:49:09:18
deciding to make that step 
00:49:10:05 – 00:49:13:07
and using your own body as that, 
00:49:13:20 – 00:49:17:16
that catalyst to be able to reclaim that. 
00:49:17:16 – 00:49:19:12
Oh my gosh, it’s huge. 
00:49:19:12 – 00:49:22:05
And I also always love 
00:49:22:05 – 00:49:23:01
that you get to 
00:49:23:01 – 00:49:25:07
where you get to hold it with you always. 
00:49:25:07 – 00:49:26:06
You know, 
00:49:26:06 – 00:49:29:07
because it’s not even like a moment 
00:49:29:07 – 00:49:30:06
or a day 
00:49:30:06 – 00:49:32:14
where you’re having this ceremony 
00:49:32:14 – 00:49:33:21
or special thing. 
00:49:33:21 – 00:49:36:21
It’s like something that you get to turn to 
00:49:37:03 – 00:49:39:11
when you need to do to reminds you 
00:49:39:11 – 00:49:40:16
that you did that. 
00:49:40:16 – 00:49:42:09
You took back that power. 
00:49:42:09 – 00:49:46:21
So I, I see it so often and I, I just 
00:49:46:21 – 00:49:47:16
I love that 
00:49:47:16 – 00:49:50:03
that’s something that is available 
00:49:50:03 – 00:49:53:03
in in trauma work 
00:49:53:03 – 00:49:55:21
and rewriting your story 
00:49:55:21 – 00:49:57:08
with narrative therapy. 
00:49:57:08 – 00:49:59:14
So yeah. Thank you. 
00:49:59:14 – 00:50:00:02
You guys did 
00:50:00:02 – 00:50:03:04
ask the question about, educational, 
00:50:03:09 – 00:50:04:14
tools 
00:50:04:14 – 00:50:07:00
that that teachers might be able to. 
00:50:07:00 – 00:50:10:00
And I know we, we talked a lot about how 
00:50:10:00 – 00:50:13:03
that is kind of a part of school now, 
00:50:13:03 – 00:50:14:21
which makes me so happy. 
00:50:14:21 – 00:50:16:21
But I did make a couple little notes 
00:50:16:21 – 00:50:20:17
about, I thought, integrating tattoos 
00:50:20:17 – 00:50:23:22
into curriculum in the cultural sense, 
00:50:24:07 – 00:50:25:23
you know, is amazing 
00:50:25:23 – 00:50:29:18
way to teach historical and 
00:50:29:18 – 00:50:31:11
cultural significance 
00:50:31:11 – 00:50:36:01
Introducing some of, like the 
00:50:36:04 – 00:50:39:04
the Māori Tā moko or 
00:50:39:06 – 00:50:42:00
Japanese Irezumi things 
00:50:42:00 – 00:50:44:17
maybe having a guest speaker, 
00:50:44:17 – 00:50:47:17
a, teacher could do either 
00:50:47:17 – 00:50:48:21
a tattoo artist 
00:50:48:21 – 00:50:51:06
or somebody who was very, 
00:50:51:06 – 00:50:53:13
knowledgeable about tattoo history. 
00:50:53:13 – 00:50:55:18
I think kids would love that. 
00:50:55:18 – 00:50:57:11
And and maybe things 
00:50:57:11 – 00:50:59:14
that they might be scared about asking. 
00:50:59:14 – 00:51:02:04
They could feel comfortable with. 
00:51:02:04 – 00:51:03:21
Yeah. 
00:51:03:21 – 00:51:06:11
Obviously art in art class. 
00:51:06:11 – 00:51:08:10
Just asking kids 
00:51:08:10 – 00:51:09:14
to design their own 
00:51:09:14 – 00:51:11:07
tattoo and, like, what? 
00:51:11:07 – 00:51:14:03
Personal meaning that you have to them. 
00:51:14:03 – 00:51:18:06
And just being able to explore symbolism 
00:51:18:06 – 00:51:20:06
and the design elements 
00:51:20:06 – 00:51:21:16
and all the cool things 
00:51:21:16 – 00:51:23:22
you could do with art, of course. 
00:51:23:22 – 00:51:26:16
And then had, Oh, I also see, 
00:51:26:16 – 00:51:28:11
with literature, 
00:51:28:11 – 00:51:29:20
creative writing 
00:51:29:20 – 00:51:32:12
lady using tattoos as a motif 
00:51:32:12 – 00:51:36:10
or a symbol for a creative writing. 
00:51:36:10 – 00:51:40:07
Exercise to, like, analyze 
00:51:40:15 – 00:51:43:13
characters or themes or plots or, 
00:51:43:13 – 00:51:44:21
you know, just, 
00:51:44:21 – 00:51:45:18
I guess 
00:51:45:18 – 00:51:47:12
another big part of that to me 
00:51:47:12 – 00:51:49:06
is normalizing it. 
00:51:49:06 – 00:51:52:17
So it’s not something that feels so 
00:51:53:09 – 00:51:54:06
taboo. 
00:51:54:06 – 00:51:55:11
You know, I just 
00:51:55:11 – 00:51:56:10
I really like that 
00:51:56:10 – 00:51:58:03
because I did see online 
00:51:58:03 – 00:52:00:06
somebody do a book writing assignment 
00:52:00:06 – 00:52:00:19
where instead of 
00:52:00:19 – 00:52:02:22
just writing like a book report, 
00:52:02:22 – 00:52:05:05
they had to pick, like is 
00:52:05:05 – 00:52:07:12
are they called jibbitz on the Crocs 
00:52:07:12 – 00:52:10:02
widget? Yes. Yeah. 
00:52:10:02 – 00:52:13:00
They had to make a Croc for the character 
00:52:13:00 – 00:52:15:00
and put jibbitz on there. 
00:52:15:00 – 00:52:17:19
So it’s like the character in your book. 
00:52:17:19 – 00:52:19:15
Like what tattoos would they have? 
00:52:19:15 – 00:52:20:04
Like, 
00:52:20:04 – 00:52:22:02
would Ponyboy from The Outsiders 
00:52:22:02 – 00:52:23:17
be wearing? 
00:52:23:17 – 00:52:24:13
Exactly. 
00:52:24:13 – 00:52:26:19
Like, there’s endless things, right, 
00:52:26:19 – 00:52:28:10
that you could do. 
00:52:28:10 – 00:52:30:10
I think that’s so cool. 
00:52:30:10 – 00:52:30:20
That’s 
00:52:30:20 – 00:52:34:14
that’s a great little, little assignment 
00:52:34:20 – 00:52:36:01
that teacher do that would 
00:52:37:13 – 00:52:40:01
Do you have any like, advice for anybody 
00:52:40:01 – 00:52:41:01
who’s an aspiring 
00:52:41:01 – 00:52:43:04
tattoo artist that you know, 
00:52:43:04 – 00:52:44:09
wants to hone in on something 
00:52:44:09 – 00:52:46:12
because there’s so many out there, but, 
00:52:46:12 – 00:52:47:00
you know, 
00:52:47:00 – 00:52:48:10
is there any advice that you would give 
00:52:48:10 – 00:52:49:00
for somebody 
00:52:49:00 – 00:52:52:00
to just believe in what they can do? 
00:52:52:16 – 00:52:53:01
Yeah. 
00:52:53:01 – 00:52:53:19
Well, 
00:52:53:19 – 00:52:56:14
the best thing any aspiring tattoo 
00:52:56:14 – 00:52:58:15
artist can do is to draw. 
00:52:58:15 – 00:53:00:23
Draw a draw 
00:53:00:23 – 00:53:03:11
Just like live. 
00:53:03:11 – 00:53:05:07
Breathe. Practicing. 
00:53:05:07 – 00:53:06:00
You know, 
00:53:06:00 – 00:53:08:17
because it’s muscle memory, right? 
00:53:08:17 – 00:53:10:11
So if you’ve done it 
00:53:10:11 – 00:53:13:11
over and over on your iPad or your paper, 
00:53:13:12 – 00:53:15:18
obviously going into to do that, 
00:53:15:18 – 00:53:18:16
On skin is going to feel normal. 
00:53:18:16 – 00:53:21:02
Interestingly enough, 
00:53:21:02 – 00:53:23:16
because I lived in California and Oregon, 
00:53:23:16 – 00:53:26:14
in Oregon, we’re one of the few states 
00:53:26:14 – 00:53:29:23
that required tattoo school 
00:53:29:23 – 00:53:33:20
a person has to go to tattoo school and, 
00:53:33:20 – 00:53:35:05
finish a program 
00:53:35:05 – 00:53:38:01
and take a test to be licensed. 
00:53:38:01 – 00:53:40:22
So it’s a little bit different experience 
00:53:40:22 – 00:53:42:12
here than what 
00:53:42:12 – 00:53:44:09
I was used to coming from California, 
00:53:44:09 – 00:53:48:04
where basically, you know, you can 
00:53:48:13 – 00:53:50:13
you can hone your skills 
00:53:50:13 – 00:53:52:20
and opening up shop basically, you know, 
00:53:52:20 – 00:53:55:17
there are some, important, 
00:53:55:17 – 00:53:57:04
like bloodborne pathogens 
00:53:57:04 – 00:53:59:17
and things that you need to be. 
00:53:59:17 – 00:54:00:15
Yeah. 
00:54:00:15 – 00:54:03:21
But in Oregon, they’re a little bit, 
00:54:04:03 – 00:54:05:19
more strict with, 
00:54:05:19 – 00:54:07:23
who could get into the field, 
00:54:07:23 – 00:54:10:10
which there’s a lot of debate 
00:54:10:10 – 00:54:13:15
in the tattoo world on tattoo schools. 
00:54:13:15 – 00:54:14:01
There’s 
00:54:14:01 – 00:54:15:20
kind of the old school way 
00:54:15:20 – 00:54:19:02
of doing an apprentice ship, earning 
00:54:19:03 – 00:54:20:00
your way, 
00:54:20:00 – 00:54:20:09
you know, 
00:54:20:09 – 00:54:21:21
which used to be 
00:54:21:21 – 00:54:23:22
the way that things were done. 
00:54:23:22 – 00:54:26:12
And, So. 
00:54:26:12 – 00:54:27:23
But in Oregon, you just 
00:54:27:23 – 00:54:30:06
you don’t have a choice. 
00:54:30:06 – 00:54:32:08
You know, even with the even though 
00:54:32:08 – 00:54:33:14
people, you know, 
00:54:33:14 – 00:54:35:01
want them to earn it 
00:54:35:01 – 00:54:36:03
and go through the old school 
00:54:36:03 – 00:54:38:05
boy, you just have to go to school. 
00:54:38:05 – 00:54:42:17
So, but I, I say just draw, 
00:54:42:17 – 00:54:46:12
live it, breathe it, do your research. 
00:54:46:12 – 00:54:48:17
Follow amazing tattoo artists. 
00:54:48:17 – 00:54:51:20
That inspiration is so huge. 
00:54:52:05 – 00:54:54:20
One of the things that our books 
00:54:54:20 – 00:54:55:12
that we used to 
00:54:55:12 – 00:54:58:14
make, were made for that purpose. 
00:54:58:14 – 00:55:01:00
They were inspirational books 
00:55:01:00 – 00:55:04:00
to get people to give ideas and stuff 
00:55:04:00 – 00:55:04:14
for others. 
00:55:04:14 – 00:55:06:03
And the way we would do 
00:55:06:03 – 00:55:08:21
it is we would have a theme 
00:55:08:21 – 00:55:11:01
and we would open up a call for art. 
00:55:11:01 – 00:55:12:11
So for instance, 
00:55:12:11 – 00:55:15:04
we had like a book on birds, 
00:55:15:04 – 00:55:18:04
on one on insects, one on skulls, 
00:55:18:05 – 00:55:21:02
one on under the sea, you know, so 
00:55:21:02 – 00:55:22:16
we would have an idea, 
00:55:22:16 – 00:55:24:23
open up the call for art. 
00:55:24:23 – 00:55:26:14
People would create tattoos 
00:55:26:14 – 00:55:29:04
or drawings or paintings or sculptures, 
00:55:29:04 – 00:55:30:19
whatever their need then was, 
00:55:30:19 – 00:55:33:23
and then they would submit the images. 
00:55:34:06 – 00:55:35:01
And then once 
00:55:35:01 – 00:55:37:03
we would get all of that stuff after, 
00:55:37:03 – 00:55:38:19
we usually have, submissions open 
00:55:38:19 – 00:55:40:14
for like 6 to 8 months, 
00:55:40:14 – 00:55:41:15
and then we would take 
00:55:41:15 – 00:55:42:19
all the submissions 
00:55:42:19 – 00:55:44:07
and, and kind of choose 
00:55:44:07 – 00:55:46:08
what was going to be in the books. 
00:55:46:08 – 00:55:49:23
And they became kind of, 
00:55:50:14 – 00:55:52:19
inspirational tools that a lot of tattoo 
00:55:52:19 – 00:55:54:08
artists have in their shop, 
00:55:54:08 – 00:55:55:15
so that when people come in 
00:55:55:15 – 00:55:58:15
and they can look at ideas for that. 
00:55:58:15 – 00:56:02:13
So, gathering, books and, 
00:56:02:17 – 00:56:06:07
just all kinds of the line drawings 
00:56:06:07 – 00:56:09:10
and anything you can do to practice 
00:56:09:10 – 00:56:13:08
and just understand, what it takes 
00:56:13:08 – 00:56:14:00
because it’s, 
00:56:15:12 – 00:56:16:02
you have to be 
00:56:16:02 – 00:56:17:04
very dedicated 
00:56:17:04 – 00:56:19:20
to that craft to do well in it. 
00:56:19:20 – 00:56:23:01
And, yeah, I love that. 
00:56:23:01 – 00:56:25:18
It’s there are so many tattoo artists. 
00:56:25:18 – 00:56:26:00
Yeah. 
00:56:26:00 – 00:56:27:05
Which is so different 
00:56:27:05 – 00:56:29:08
from when I first started. 
00:56:29:08 – 00:56:31:04
But it’s so exciting to see 
00:56:31:04 – 00:56:33:00
how many young people 
00:56:33:00 – 00:56:34:20
are coming into the field. 
00:56:34:20 – 00:56:36:08
It’s pretty cool. 
00:56:36:08 – 00:56:37:02
They. Yeah. 
00:56:37:02 – 00:56:38:19
I think, when talking about, 
00:56:38:19 – 00:56:41:01
like, family members and tattoos, 
00:56:41:01 – 00:56:43:12
my first family member 
00:56:43:12 – 00:56:45:09
that had a tattoo that I saw. 
00:56:45:09 – 00:56:46:05
So maybe others 
00:56:46:05 – 00:56:47:03
did, you know, 
00:56:47:03 – 00:56:50:03
it was my great Uncle Fred. 
00:56:50:04 – 00:56:51:20
He was one of the last people 
00:56:51:20 – 00:56:53:03
to be in the horse Calvary. 
00:56:53:03 – 00:56:56:03
So he’s, you know, old, old man. 
00:56:56:14 – 00:56:58:16
And he was, he was a marine, 
00:56:58:16 – 00:56:59:19
and he was in the Navy. 
00:56:59:19 – 00:57:02:02
So you you got to get a tattoo. 
00:57:02:02 – 00:57:03:13
You just. Right. 
00:57:03:13 – 00:57:06:15
So on his arm, he had a naked woman, 
00:57:06:22 – 00:57:09:19
and he comes home and my great great 
00:57:09:19 – 00:57:10:15
aunt goes, 
00:57:10:15 – 00:57:12:13
you put some clothes on that lady. 
00:57:13:16 – 00:57:15:06
So you had a tattoo, you 
00:57:15:06 – 00:57:17:04
a bathing suit over her. 
00:57:17:04 – 00:57:19:15
And so when I, I knew him, he was 
00:57:19:15 – 00:57:22:10
he was in his 80s, into his 90s. 
00:57:22:10 – 00:57:23:22
He was rolling around his wheelchair 
00:57:23:22 – 00:57:24:19
and he would be like, 
00:57:24:19 – 00:57:26:19
I can make her dance. 
00:57:26:19 – 00:57:29:05
And we would just sit there 
00:57:29:05 – 00:57:31:15
and he would make his, his lady dance. 
00:57:31:15 – 00:57:32:11
And. 
00:57:32:11 – 00:57:34:07
Yeah, it was, 
00:57:34:07 – 00:57:35:22
when I knew him, it was fading. 
00:57:35:22 – 00:57:37:18
It was obviously really old ink. 
00:57:37:18 – 00:57:38:15
And so she was 
00:57:38:15 – 00:57:41:15
both bathing suit and naked. 
00:57:41:19 – 00:57:43:13
It’s like, no. 
00:57:43:13 – 00:57:46:14
Oh, my God, I love that he went for it. 
00:57:46:16 – 00:57:48:01
Yes, but for. Right. 
00:57:48:01 – 00:57:49:13
And on his arm. 
00:57:49:13 – 00:57:51:21
Yeah. That’s a very prominent place. 
00:57:51:21 – 00:57:53:13
Oh, it’s right here. Yeah. 
00:57:53:13 – 00:57:54:21
Oh. In the. 
00:57:54:21 – 00:57:56:17
Oh, no. 
00:57:56:17 – 00:57:58:07
Yeah. Watch her dance 
00:58:01:08 – 00:58:01:21
Good for him. 
00:58:01:21 – 00:58:03:21
Him? What was his name? 
00:58:03:21 – 00:58:04:07
Fred. 
00:58:04:07 – 00:58:05:11
Everybody called him Bus 
00:58:05:11 – 00:58:07:15
and I called him Uncle Fred and. Yeah. 
00:58:07:15 – 00:58:09:07
Rest in peace,he 
00:58:09:07 – 00:58:11:19
he loved his little naked lady tattoo. 
00:58:11:19 – 00:58:14:04
And his mama said, you he she said, 
00:58:14:04 – 00:58:15:13
put some clothes on her. 
00:58:15:13 – 00:58:18:13
You make her a right woman. 
00:58:18:18 – 00:58:19:17
So. 
00:58:19:17 – 00:58:22:07
Yeah, Good for him, man. 
00:58:22:07 – 00:58:25:15
You see, like those during that time, 
00:58:26:02 – 00:58:29:13
it was, you know, a lot of a lot of, 
00:58:29:13 – 00:58:30:04
you know, 
00:58:30:04 – 00:58:33:17
naval officers or motorcycle gangs. 
00:58:33:22 – 00:58:34:08
It’s like, 
00:58:34:08 – 00:58:36:16
you know, it’s that old school, 
00:58:36:16 – 00:58:37:22
that stigma 
00:58:37:22 – 00:58:40:02
that that kind of stuck for so long. 
00:58:40:02 – 00:58:42:17
But for him, that’s so cute. 
00:58:42:17 – 00:58:44:16
That’s a great story. 
00:58:44:16 – 00:58:45:00
Yeah. 
00:58:45:00 – 00:58:46:17
And then, as the listeners know, 
00:58:46:17 – 00:58:47:19
my dad is in the Navy, 
00:58:47:19 – 00:58:49:06
but he was deathly afraid of needles, 
00:58:49:06 – 00:58:50:05
so that was the only reason 
00:58:50:05 – 00:58:51:13
he didn’t get a tattoo. 
00:58:51:13 – 00:58:53:04
And, 
00:58:53:04 – 00:58:55:19
I guess my grandma had to pick it up. 
00:58:57:16 – 00:58:58:18
I you okay? 
00:58:58:18 – 00:59:00:07
So it’s like my aunt with the lips, 
00:59:00:07 – 00:59:01:14
my grandma with the eyeliner. 
00:59:01:14 – 00:59:03:05
So I guess I have to have eyebrows. 
00:59:03:05 – 00:59:05:19
Like, that’s the only other. Oh, 
00:59:05:19 – 00:59:07:06
that I know 
00:59:07:06 – 00:59:10:01
you are definitely next, don’t you think? 
00:59:10:01 – 00:59:11:04
Stefanie? She. 
00:59:11:04 – 00:59:14:04
It’s got to be up. 
00:59:14:05 – 00:59:15:10
Yeah. 
00:59:15:10 – 00:59:17:09
Well, this is completely lovely. 
00:59:17:09 – 00:59:20:10
And before we wrap up, Dr. Jinxi 
00:59:20:10 – 00:59:21:15
where can our listeners 
00:59:21:15 – 00:59:23:14
find more information about your work 
00:59:23:14 – 00:59:25:03
and maybe some resources 
00:59:25:03 – 00:59:25:22
that you’d recommend 
00:59:25:22 – 00:59:27:02
for those interested 
00:59:27:02 – 00:59:28:04
in the positive mental 
00:59:28:04 – 00:59:30:00
health effects of tattoos? 
00:59:30:00 – 00:59:32:01
Oh, thank you for asking. 
00:59:32:01 – 00:59:32:11
You know, 
00:59:32:11 – 00:59:34:03
I do have, 
00:59:34:03 – 00:59:36:08
there’s an amazing tattoo artist. 
00:59:36:08 – 00:59:39:16
She’s also an interdisciplinary artist 
00:59:39:16 – 00:59:41:15
in many amazing mediums. 
00:59:41:15 – 00:59:44:16
But her name is Tamara Santibanez 
00:59:45:03 – 00:59:46:12
and she wrote, 
00:59:46:12 – 00:59:49:07
I think it was 2021 or 2022. 
00:59:49:07 – 00:59:51:00
She wrote this really incredible 
00:59:51:00 – 00:59:52:02
book called, 
00:59:52:02 – 00:59:52:22
Could This 
00:59:52:22 – 00:59:56:11
Be Magic Tattooing as Liberation Work. 
00:59:57:00 – 00:59:59:06
And it’s beautiful. 
00:59:59:06 – 01:00:04:12
It’s, it talks about, trauma 
01:00:04:17 – 01:00:06:06
and, you know, 
01:00:06:06 – 01:00:09:06
using tattooing as a way to, 
01:00:09:06 – 01:00:12:18
kind of help people create boundaries 
01:00:13:04 – 01:00:16:03
and shape being like, a more ethical 
01:00:16:03 – 01:00:19:23
way of doing that work, 
01:00:19:23 – 01:00:21:09
in with it 
01:00:21:09 – 01:00:24:09
through a, trauma informed lens. 
01:00:24:15 – 01:00:27:07
And she has the full pdf of that book 
01:00:27:07 – 01:00:29:18
for free actually on her website. 
01:00:29:18 – 01:00:33:10
So it’s I highly recommend that, 
01:00:33:10 – 01:00:34:21
and then there’s another, 
01:00:34:21 – 01:00:37:21
I think it’s from the early 2000, 
01:00:37:23 – 01:00:39:05
but it’s called 
01:00:39:05 – 01:00:42:19
Tattooed: The Socio Genesis of Body Art. 
01:00:43:05 – 01:00:45:00
And it’s really a great book 
01:00:45:00 – 01:00:46:14
by Michael Atkinson, 
01:00:46:14 – 01:00:49:17
and it has a lot of research in it 
01:00:49:17 – 01:00:50:22
that connects, 
01:00:50:22 – 01:00:53:05
a lot of the psychological, 
01:00:53:05 – 01:00:56:05
components that we talked about today. 
01:00:56:06 – 01:00:58:20
So definitely recommend those. 
01:00:58:20 – 01:01:04:09
And then me, I oh, thank my, 
01:01:04:09 – 01:01:05:08
my website 
01:01:05:08 – 01:01:08:15
for my practice is, drjinxi.com 
01:01:10:00 – 01:01:12:10
And then my, Instagram, 
01:01:12:10 – 01:01:15:10
like, my personal Instagram is @Jinxi 
01:01:16:18 – 01:01:22:05
Our tattoo shop is @OOSTattoo 
01:01:22:05 – 01:01:25:01
And, the book publishing 
01:01:25:01 – 01:01:29:09
company is @OutofStepBooks 
01:01:29:09 – 01:01:32:03
and, all of our tattoo and art 
01:01:32:03 – 01:01:33:15
books can be found. 
01:01:33:15 – 01:01:37:01
oosbooks.com 
01:01:38:08 – 01:01:41:01
And I think that’s it. 
01:01:41:01 – 01:01:42:03
You can find me a like 
01:01:42:03 – 01:01:44:03
LinkedIn and ResearchGate 
01:01:44:03 – 01:01:47:03
with some of my my research, with just 
01:01:47:03 – 01:01:50:03
putting my name in it. 
01:01:50:12 – 01:01:52:02
Wonderful, wonderful. 
01:01:52:02 – 01:01:52:13
Well, 
01:01:52:13 – 01:01:54:15
if you have an amazing Disney 
01:01:54:15 – 01:01:55:04
tattoo, 
01:01:55:04 – 01:01:57:06
please DM us an image of it 
01:01:57:06 – 01:01:59:00
@HappiestPodGT 
01:01:59:00 – 01:02:02:03
You can find us on IG and on X. 
01:02:02:15 – 01:02:03:03
Thank you, 
01:02:03:03 – 01:02:04:19
Dr. Jinxi this is a beautiful, 
01:02:04:19 – 01:02:06:06
wonderful conversation. 
01:02:06:06 – 01:02:08:08
So much for joining. 
01:02:08:08 – 01:02:11:10
Hopefully me or Ariel could visit 
01:02:11:10 – 01:02:13:18
you one day. Oh, I would love that. 

Media/Characters Mentioned
 
• Alice in Wonderland
• Nightmare Before Christmas
• Toy Story (Woody)
• Moana
• Pocahontas
• Tinkerbell
• Lilo & Stitch
• Mickey Mouse (parks food)
• Star Wars (lightsabers, rebels)
• Marvel (Captain America, Black Panther) 

Topics/Themes Mentioned
 

DR. Jinxi’s website: www.drjinxi.com
Dr. Jinxi’s Tattoo + Book Publishing: oosbooks.com
IG: @oostattoo

Website: happy.geektherapy.com
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Geek Therapy is a 501(c)(3) non-profit that advocates for the effective and meaningful use of popular media in therapeutic, educational, and community practice.
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